Couting quituplets, septuplets, sextuplets, and other strange groupings.

[Iv'e Got The Runs Forever!]

Hey, im just new to this forum, and i've been asking for a while on ultimate-guitar, how to count Quintuplets, Septuplets, Sextuplets, (I can go into Nonuplets, Decaplets, Undecaplets, Doudecaplets, Tredecaplets, Quattrodecaplets, and Quindecaplets, but I would rather not!)

The problem is not counting these, (well yes and no)

I can count each of them, not really fluently, pretty damn roughly! I know how each of these go though. My problem is say switching between this, say I have a triplet, than a quintuplet. I cant really change between them while counting.

Before I talk more about this, Ill explain something else, when counting triplets, I count 1 2 3 4 5 6

and count straight 8ths in one hand.

1 . . 4 . .

and 8th note triplets in the other

1 . 3 . 5 .

that essentialy gives me my polyrhythm, and makes it a lot easier to change between straight 8ths, triplets 8ths, quavers crotchets, ect ect 16ths..

You get the idea.

Anyway, when I try to count 16th note quintuplets, over straight 16ths, im counting 5 for every 16th note.

Firstly, as you can imagine, going from counting 3 every 8th note, and 5 every 16th note (well I cant do it, im sure there are many people who can, I (bluntly) suck.)

Than on top of that, im counting my straight 16ths 1 . . . . 1 . . . . ect.

than Im counting my 16th note quintuplets

1 . . . 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .

Thats my 16th note quintuplet pulse, I cant change between this for shit!

Anyway my bigger problem, is that when I try to change between all these particular groupings, is my pulse gets adjusted!!

Say im tapping the straight 16ths, thats fine, im used to counting straight 16th's. Than Ill stop with that and try to go into 16th note quintuplets, and instead of the note lengths getting smaller, my pulse gets longer, and my note length stays the same!

I cant fix it!

Thanks for reading, more importantly, thanks for helping!

 

[Cheiron]

Stop counting?

Do you practice with a metronome?

And I'm assuming by quintuplets you mean strumming the note 4 times for that 16th note? In which case why count? But maybe I'm not reading your post right. I see its an old post... but whatever.

At first I thought the question was about how to count polyrthms (so you know which part of the beat to be hitting on). If that's the question.. I can't help. I'm just beginning to delve into it.

 

[Walls1441]

get Guitar Pro.

 

[guitarequalssex]

Jeez, all these posts have been very helpfull..

Im the ts on a new account, old email account got deleted.

Im fine with counting polymeters, and polyrhythms.

Still the irregular groupings are mystifying.

Cheiron: Quintuplets are 5 notes in the time of four notes of the same value.

Changing constantly between 16th note quintuplets and straight 16th notes, I cant do, Ron does so in his solo on Multi-Masking.

Also, I have GP.

I would hate to have to go crying home to GP, and learn it from there, rather than see that on a manuscript and be able to do it, then and there.

 

[STINNETT]

I think I understand what you're getting at here.

I would say concentrate more on the underlying pulse with your whole body. For instance, I either nod my head, tap my foot or something like that to sort of keep the general beat together. For a quintuplet, I would only count the first note, and then anticipate the first note of the next group or the next beat and just sort of subconsciously distribute the five notes within that measure of time. That may not help much, but I think that's pretty common. It needs to be more subconscious.

The most important thing is practicing to a metronome or some sort of steady beat. Without something to sync too, it's easy to waver.

 

[Walls1441]

get guitar pro

 

[guitarequalssex]

Ill say it again, how will GP help me?

I already have it, and it hasnt done much for me so far, as far as irregular groupings is concerned.

If you think it will help in regaurds to this topic, please, post why.

 

[STINNETT]

I'd guess the GP recommendation just has to do with being able to hear a metronome and what the various odd groupings sound like against it. It sounds to me like you know what you need to do, so it's kind of hard to understand what you're asking for.

Again, you need to acknowledge the common beat and feel it more strongly than the smaller, morphing subdivisions of that beat.
Play to a metronome with a steady quarter note pulse and practice going from playing 4 notes per pulse to 5 notes to 3 notes, etc. etc.
It sounds like you're obviously not used to doing that. Once you get used to doing it it won't seem so akward. You've got to make practice count and to do that you need a metronome or something.

 

[leaded]

http://www.vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html

I found this quite helpful

You mention you have trouble with the tempo 'escaping' you (at least that what i understood from your post), in that case start slow with a metronome to develop the feel for the different uneven sub-divisions

 

[rbd]

it's quite an old topic, but here's my go at this:

since my counting skills aren't that great, and assuming something like playing scales/soloing at 120~170bpm (give or take) I normally only count 8ths, 16ths, and their triplets. so, the very few times I try to count quintuplets or septuplets, I'll divide them in groups of 2, 3 or 4 notes that I can count. a quintuplet turns into 2 16ths and 3 16th triplets, a septuplet turns into 3 8th triplets and 4 16th triplets, and so on. In theory it's not the same because the note duration isn't always the same, but at those speeds that won't make much diference and that's the only way for my brain to understand it rythmically. the only way for me to actually try to make the note duration even would be to slow things down and actually try to count to 5 or 7 and hope to finish at the right time, but that's quite useless for actual playing.