Critique of LaVeyan Satanism

Nile577

Member
Jun 26, 2003
376
2
18
Here is a pseudy piece about LaVeyan Satanism I have constructed this dark, eldritch, prank-pizza-delivery-orchestrating evening. It had been influenced by the ideas of many writers/posters.

Quote from The Satanic Bible:

"The Eastern philosophies preach the dissolution ofman's ego before he can produce sins. It is unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of itself.

Abstract:

Ego-gratification is worthless if no account of context is taken.

Argument:

“It is unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of itself.” - Anton LaVey

In philosophy, the path of self denial is referred to as ‘asceticism.’

I have respect for the ascetic path, in which one forsakes short-term, sensory gratification in favor of long-term mental goals and achievements. However, my respect turns to scorn where this path is moralized, as in the Christian religion, where not only is asceticism represented by meekness, passivity and resigned fatalism but comes with a concomitant moralized attack on pre-Christian ‘virtues,’ such as strength, might, achievement and action.

Influenced by a post on this board, I believe there are two kinds of love. 1 – Love of self, object or person. 2 – Love of life’s conditions and context as a worldly and universal process. In my view, those philosophies which attempt to wholly deny the first are broken. These would include, on the ascetic end, Christian traditionalism, Buddhism and Schopenhauerian pessimism - all of which attempt to vitiate the importance of the self, resign the will-to-power or reduce the importance of this life through specious postulations regarding an afterlife. I also believe that those philosophies that focus exclusively on the first to the abnegation of the second are equally bankrupt. Included here would be LaVeyan Satanism and any branch of the Left Hand Path that posits that the highest form of life is to be found in self ego-gratification and the accumulation of power for its own sake, regardless of context.

For me, the essential entry point to philosophy is the nihilistic recognition that life has no meaning other than what is inherent. The conditions that are inherent to life (genetics, mortality, location) offer a window of potentiality that may be colored by the individual self and through which the will to power may be expressed. It is essential, in my view, to reconcile this self to the conditions inherent to life; first to avoid solipsist utopia and secondly to avoid what might be termed surrender to the technological gestalt of the age. To elaborate on this gestalt:

Ernst Junger, a fascistic writer who served in the German army in World War I, held that war represented the supreme rationale of an age bent on the accumulation of power. This ‘accumulation’ was really transference, with man aiming to rape his environment for gain. What once were rocks became the fuel for ammunitions; what once was a river became potential for an electric dam; what once was a field became the crater-riven, scorched wasteland of war’s imperial refrain. Never in history has an epoch arisen in which man held himself so utterly in command of nature. For Junger, descended from the literary tradition of Poe, all that was to be done was narrate right from the heart of no-man’s land and revel in the flying body parts, exploding shells and chatter of machine gun fire; an aesthetic validation of a power-crazed epoch. The entire effort of a country was expressed in war, from the lowest factory munitions worker to the highest army general. As German philosopher Martin Heidegger poignantly noted, what once in National Socialism had attracted him – a promise to glorify the green and flowing volkland – now sought to rend the very same with battle, construct great forges and industry over its fields and see it as a source of fuel, to be cannibalized by its own people.

This is an excellent allegory for LaVeyan Satanism and the broken irreverence of usurping the will-to-power so it simply becomes a ‘will-to-will’ - that is, a desire for power merely for its own sake, regardless of end result or context. The culmination of this thought echoes in Oppenheimer’s words of bitter sweet triumph upon his creation of the atomic bomb: ‘I am become death: the destroyer of worlds.’

I utterly refute the thought of any ideology or philosophical system that preaches such ‘will-to-will.’ It ends in broken fatalism in which man can only submit to the irrational gestalt of greed and gratification. Power is expressed not in denial of man’s universal context but in an aesthetic embracing and celebration of it, so the child does not need to break the toy to prove his mastery over it but is able to disclose new aspects of it through art and creation. This poetic thought – Heidegger himself would term the Nietzschean Superman a ‘warrior poet’ - is of a wholly more worthwhile, well-aligned and powerful nature than the LaVeyan doctrine of endless ego-gratification.

What is the locus of this ‘ego’ anyhow? If it is, to return to our opening proposition, simply the first kind of love, then I would hold such Satanism to be the desperate rattling of the cage by inmates who hold making a noise the highest gratification; a thousand genitals thrashing for transient, no-end result, returning-to-base-level content. If it is the second love, all actions gratify both the self’s ego and, at a higher level, the cosmic process of life. Power should be accumulated in accordance with a desire to use it creatively, not as a store and anesthetic against encroaching mortality (how bitter death must be in this latter case - truly the grand leveler).

How frustrating to live a life in which gratification is sensual, indulgent, vapid and enshrined! LaVeyan Satanism, for me, is equivalent to a ‘making the best of’ coping strategy for modern society, sharing its mindless, hedonistic greed or perhaps, more colorfully, an excuse to bury your head in the sand and masturbate at the shrine of sensuality while the chance for pursuit of higher ideals passes by.

Side point:

“For anyone who has every opportunity for material gain, to choose this form of religious thought seems foolish, indeed!“ - LaVey

This is nonsense and a transparently dishonest attempt to veil an
endorsement of the consumerist doctrines of Capitalism in esoteric mysticism. Material gain is, in my view, of no considerable import to people of quality. What good are possessions or money as end results in themselves? Whatever gratification they give passes, no matter the width of the new television set, leaving one exactly where they were before they purchased, left to shake the head for a moment before diving straight into the next empty indulgence.
 
Nile577 said:
Here is a pseudy piece about LaVeyan Satanism I have constructed this dark, eldritch, prank-pizza-delivery-orchestrating evening. It had been influenced by the ideas of many writers/posters.

Quote from The Satanic Bible:

"The Eastern philosophies preach the dissolution ofman's ego before he can produce sins. It is unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of itself.

Abstract:

Ego-gratification is worthless if no account of context is taken.

Argument:

“It is unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of itself.” - Anton LaVey

In philosophy, the path of self denial is referred to as ‘asceticism.’

I have respect for the ascetic path, in which one forsakes short-term, sensory gratification in favor of long-term mental goals and achievements. However, my respect turns to scorn where this path is moralized, as in the Christian religion, where not only is asceticism represented by meekness, passivity and resigned fatalism but comes with a concomitant moralized attack on pre-Christian ‘virtues,’ such as strength, might, achievement and action.

Influenced by a post on this board, I believe there are two kinds of love. 1 – Love of self, object or person. 2 – Love of life’s conditions and context as a worldly and universal process. In my view, those philosophies which attempt to wholly deny the first are broken. These would include, on the ascetic end, Christian traditionalism, Buddhism and Schopenhauerian pessimism - all of which attempt to vitiate the importance of the self, resign the will-to-power or reduce the importance of this life through specious postulations regarding an afterlife. I also believe that those philosophies that focus exclusively on the first to the abnegation of the second are equally bankrupt. Included here would be LaVeyan Satanism and any branch of the Left Hand Path that posits that the highest form of life is to be found in self ego-gratification and the accumulation of power for its own sake, regardless of context.

For me, the essential entry point to philosophy is the nihilistic recognition that life has no meaning other than what is inherent. The conditions that are inherent to life (genetics, mortality, location) offer a window of potentiality that may be colored by the individual self and through which the will to power may be expressed. It is essential, in my view, to reconcile this self to the conditions inherent to life; first to avoid solipsist utopia and secondly to avoid what might be termed surrender to the technological gestalt of the age. To elaborate on this gestalt:

Ernst Junger, a fascistic writer who served in the German army in World War I, held that war represented the supreme rationale of an age bent on the accumulation of power. This ‘accumulation’ was really transference, with man aiming to rape his environment for gain. What once were rocks became the fuel for ammunitions; what once was a river became potential for an electric dam; what once was a field became the crater-riven, scorched wasteland of war’s imperial refrain. Never in history has an epoch arisen in which man held himself so utterly in command of nature. For Junger, descended from the literary tradition of Poe, all that was to be done was narrate right from the heart of no-man’s land and revel in the flying body parts, exploding shells and chatter of machine gun fire; an aesthetic validation of a power-crazed epoch. The entire effort of a country was expressed in war, from the lowest factory munitions worker to the highest army general. As German philosopher Martin Heidegger poignantly noted, what once in National Socialism had attracted him – a promise to glorify the green and flowing volkland – now sought to rend the very same with battle, construct great forges and industry over its fields and see it as a source of fuel, to be cannibalized by its own people.

This is an excellent allegory for LaVeyan Satanism and the broken irreverence of usurping the will-to-power so it simply becomes a ‘will-to-will’ - that is, a desire for power merely for its own sake, regardless of end result or context. The culmination of this thought echoes in Oppenheimer’s words of bitter sweet triumph upon his creation of the atomic bomb: ‘I am become death: the destroyer of worlds.’

I utterly refute the thought of any ideology or philosophical system that preaches such ‘will-to-will.’ It ends in broken fatalism in which man can only submit to the irrational gestalt of greed and gratification. Power is expressed not in denial of man’s universal context but in an aesthetic embracing and celebration of it, so the child does not need to break the toy to prove his mastery over it but is able to disclose new aspects of it through art and creation. This poetic thought – Heidegger himself would term the Nietzschean Superman a ‘warrior poet’ - is of a wholly more worthwhile, well-aligned and powerful nature than the LaVeyan doctrine of endless ego-gratification.

What is the locus of this ‘ego’ anyhow? If it is, to return to our opening proposition, simply the first kind of love, then I would hold such Satanism to be the desperate rattling of the cage by inmates who hold making a noise the highest gratification; a thousand genitals thrashing for transient, no-end result, returning-to-base-level content. If it is the second love, all actions gratify both the self’s ego and, at a higher level, the cosmic process of life. Power should be accumulated in accordance with a desire to use it creatively, not as a store and anesthetic against encroaching mortality (how bitter death must be in this latter case - truly the grand leveler).

How frustrating to live a life in which gratification is sensual, indulgent, vapid and enshrined! LaVeyan Satanism, for me, is equivalent to a ‘making the best of’ coping strategy for modern society, sharing its mindless, hedonistic greed or perhaps, more colorfully, an excuse to bury your head in the sand and masturbate at the shrine of sensuality while the chance for pursuit of higher ideals passes by.

Side point:

“For anyone who has every opportunity for material gain, to choose this form of religious thought seems foolish, indeed!“ - LaVey

This is nonsense and a transparently dishonest attempt to veil an
endorsement of the consumerist doctrines of Capitalism in esoteric mysticism. Material gain is, in my view, of no considerable import to people of quality. What good are possessions or money as end results in themselves? Whatever gratification they give passes, no matter the width of the new television set, leaving one exactly where they were before they purchased, left to shake the head for a moment before diving straight into the next empty indulgence.

This is a interesting thread, that somehow was deleted. It was posted three times, yet the thread left open, had no content--thus, it may have been my mistake. Sorry Nile. Next time there's three threads, I wont just leave the first one open, and delete the repititions, without making sure I did it right.
 
A very impressive effort Nile, and an interesting discourse between diverse philosophical thrusts.

Id like to respond to this after I spend more time mulling it over (your post warrants more than a few hasty lines).
 
Well thought out thread, Nile. You summed up well the objections to Christianity as regards ascetism.

Of the two kinds of love mentioned, Odinism or Asatru contain both equally. It has been observed that La Vey, an American of Jewish origin, whom Varg Vikernes described as "an American Capitalist pig", based his satanism considerably on Odinism, but made his idea into a corrupting, harmful and overly hedonistic creed for the masses. (Not that it is a mass religion - just that the acceptance of ego-gratification recieved a huge boost as a result). I suspect his motives were to neutralise the growing attraction of paganist religion with his sick alternative, as well as personal fame. If you specifically think about what would be the next choice religion for Whites who become disaffected with Christianity - that may well be Satanism now.

It may have seemed deliciously louche and exciting to some when La Vey wrote the Satanic Bible, to advocate utterly selfish irresponsible ego-gratification. But, by now, one simply yawns and observes that it would be more startling for someone to condemn this widespread spoit brat behaviour.

Satanic clubs even spawn the rulers of the west, in particular the "Skull and Bones" society, a masonic/satanist group which both Bush presidents, and their associates (as well as leading Democrats) belong.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml

An unhealthy interest in satanism cannot be a positive quality in any world leader!
 
Norsemaiden said:
Satanic clubs even spawn the rulers of the west, in particular the "Skull and Bones" society, a masonic/satanist group which both Bush presidents, and their associates (as well as leading Democrats) belong.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml

An unhealthy interest in satanism cannot be a positive quality in any world leader!

an excerpt from the article
What’s the point of this?

”I believe the point of the year in the tomb is to forge such a strong bond between these 15 new members that after they graduate, for them to betray Skull and Bones would mean they'd have to betray their 14 closest friends,” says Robbins.

it's a Satanic atrocity.
 
Oh well that's fine then. The society is about nothing at all really.:loco:

It's really hard to separate the fact and the fiction about this Skull and Bones society. The things we can say are fact is that the society exists and that many powerful people in the world are or have been members. That there are very few members - est about 800 living at any one time - so they are ridiculously extrememly disproportionately influential. That they have rituals which seem to be satanic - but secrecy makes it hard to establish.

Another fact is that there are lies told about Skull and bones to confuse anyone who is trying to figure it out. This site http://www.newswatchmagazine.org/weekly_editor/9.8.00.htm
and others like it insist it has something to do with Nazi ideology - as if Nazis would be in the least bit impressed by satanism as opposed to wanting to send satanists to the so called "gas chambers"! Absolute nonsense and a smoke screen!

And to suggest that Nietzschean Superman idea could possibly have connections to people who are obsessed with materialism to the extent that they are turning the Earth into a polluted and uninhabitable wasteland is so crazy that I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

As insane as it must sound, even the notion that in fact these people are shape shifting reptilian aliens who need to change the climate on Earth to suit their kind better is actually slightly less of a crack pot idea - because at least it is not entirely inconsistent with the evidence!
 
Your approach may be distracting.


Norsemaiden said:
That they have rituals which seem to be satanic - but secrecy makes it hard to establish.

Again, from the previously linked article:

“A woman holds a knife and pretends to slash the throat of another person lying down before them, and there's screaming and yelling at the neophytes,” he says.

Robbins says the cast of the initiation ritual is right out of Harry Potter meets Dracula: “There is a devil, a Don Quixote and a Pope who has one foot sheathed in a white monogrammed slipper resting on a stone skull. The initiates are led into the room one at a time. And once an initiate is inside, the Bonesmen shriek at him. Finally, the Bonesman is shoved to his knees in front of Don Quixote as the shrieking crowd falls silent. And Don Quixote lifts his sword and taps the Bonesman on his left shoulder and says, ‘By order of our order, I dub thee knight of Euloga.’"

It’s a lot of mumbo-jumbo, says Robbins, but it means a lot to the people who are in it

I'll assume you'll argue that is a lie. I'll argue it's mere theatrics.

Another fact is that there are lies told about Skull and bones to confuse anyone who is trying to figure it out. This site http://www.newswatchmagazine.org/weekly_editor/9.8.00.htm
and others like it try to suggest it has something to do with Nazi ideology - as if Nazis would be in the least bit impressed by satanism as opposed to wanting to send satanists to the so called "gas chambers"! Absolute nonsense and a smoke screen!

And to suggest that Nietzschean Superman idea could possibly have connections to people who are obsessed with materialism to the extent that they are turning the Earth into a polluted and uninhabitable wasteland is so crazy that I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

whatever.

I assume you're trying to establish an example of our "will-to-will" concern with all this?
 
Mere theatrics or not it suggests an interest in Satanism. Is Satanism actually anything more than mere theatrics anyway? Our rulers should be more interested in noble ideas rather than satanic theatricals.
 
Norsemaiden said:
Mere theatrics or not it suggests an interest in Satanism.

no it does not. There is nothing to substantiate your claim. You'd have to argue that most all secret societies derived their rites from Laveyan rites which is impossible.

Clearly you know very little about Satanic rites, current or otherwise.
 
Can you comment on the ease with which these Skull and Bones people achieve high office? Is that explainable merely by their being from Yale, their family background and their will-to-power? Do you agree that they must obviously promote other people from their society in a way such as to exclude fairness to those outside of it? Is it not more likely that they have an agenda in common (trancsending whether they be Democrat or Republican) than that there is no agenda? What would the society be about with so much power to influence who becomes president, etc and no agenda? Their occult rituals certainly have to be described as appearing satanic than any other creed. What's specifically unsatanic about it?
Actually it must be a lot more serious than just being based entirely on LaVey's "red pyjama wearing cult" to use Alex Jones's term.

Is this too off topic - should be on the conspiracy thread?

I was just trying to show the LaVeyan ego-gratification as seeming to be something dear to the rulers of the West.

(Btw here's a video of Bush admitting being in Skull and Bones http://infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/kerry_bush_sb.htm He was caught out nicely there!)
 
Norsemaiden said:
I was just trying to show the LaVeyan ego-gratification as seeming to be something dear to the rulers of the West.



Now if you would please, Norsemaiden, discontinue making an arse of yourself.

just because people put on a play that you think is satanic it doesn't mean they are actually satanists. just because there are a few really rich and kinda weird people that know each other and hang out together, it doesn't mean they are satanists.

are you really that dense Norsemaiden? I can't believe how easily and proudly you retarded this topic with your hijacking.

consider this:

"It is unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of itself.” - Anton LaVey

that's from the first post in this thread. Ask yourself, why would an alleged lover of Laveyan Satanism pretend to be a Christian? (that question relates to your attack on Bush -- in case you were struggling for a clue) Please, do not answer that question, though. Just stop writing.
 
p.s. I'm still mulling over your topic, Nile, with special attention to the quirkiness of starting an argument on the importance of selfhood (asceticism) then delving into the will to will on a grand scale -- that is, showing a tendency to be all inclusive.

but that is simply a critique, not an investigation.
 
I didn't intend for this to go off topic and the topic was LaVeyan satanism and ego gratification. There are many websites claiming that Skull and Bones is satanic - however I would tend to say that the occultism they follow is somewhat more extreme than LaVeyan satanism. I'm sorry if you think this is so stupid. I don't want my replies to be the only ones to this thread.
Why would a Satanist pretend to be a Christian? you ask. Like Ozzy Osbourne, who Bush is pals with, do you mean?(Oh actually, Ozzy is Christian pretending to be Satanist though).
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushrockon.htm (I know this is a joke picture.)
Now why would a US politican find it politically advantageous to pretend to be Christian....hmmm. Why would a Jew pretend to be a Christian - or to be a Christian priest for that matter? It happens routinely. The Spanish Inquisition attempted to rout out Jews and Moslems who were pretending to be Catholics. http://www.trosch.org/for/inquisition.html

Now instead of making a petty argument with me, why don't you give a proper reply to the first post Ojeblikket?

(You make me suspicious that you are defending some interest you are not prepared to bring out in the open - but that could be me being paranoid.)
 
Norsemaiden said:
There are many websites claiming that Skull and Bones is satanic - however I would tend to say that the occultism they follow is somewhat more extreme than LaVeyan satanism.

you know nothing about Occultism.

Now instead of making a petty argument with me, why don't you give a proper reply to the first post Ojeblikket?

I would appreciate it if you would stop bombarding everything with your nonsensical mindfarts. I attempted to dissuade you from continuing your ignorant approach (see posts #5 & #7) but, alas, you took it as encouragement.
 
you know nothing about Occultism.
would appreciate it if you would stop bombarding everything with your nonsensical mindfarts. I attempted to dissuade you from continuing your ignorant approach (see posts #5 & #7) but, alas, you took it as encouragement.

Sigh:erk: One doesn't normally expect to disuade people by insulting them. That is illogical. You expect me to back down because you have verbally slapped me basically. I don't want to turn this into a fight, you do. You remind me of Consuming Impulse. "Ignorant approach"? I thought you were intelligent but you are demonstrating obvious ignorance.

You say I "know nothing about Occultism". Well in that case nor does any dictionary. Dictionary definition is: "Hidden from the eye or the understanding, inviable, secret; concealed; unknown".
It may be true that I know nothing about the "unknown" though.
Other definition: "Of , relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena". Anyway I don't suppose you have a better definiton.

And I can't believe you asked why Bush would pretend to be something he totally is not! You know nothing about politicians. And given that people with this amount of gullibility have the vote, it explains the poor state of things.

Back to the Skull and Bones society; a huge CONFLICT OF INTEREST arises when important politicians belong to a secret society of any kind, especially one that is strongly rumoured to practice the things the S&B are rumoured to. It is required that they should cease to be associated with said group, or that their "secrets" be fully exposed. Anyone who disagrees with this is either very naive (can't see the harm in it) or else has their own vested interest in such practices.

Similarly, politicians should not own large stakes in companies which are awarded contracts or other benefits by the government.

It is indeed a pity that no one has yet managed to post an on-topic response to Nile (other than my first post, which I didn't expect to lead to my having to point out a lot of simple facts in order to defend myself against mindless insults).