The "Satanism" Thread

[Black Core]

first of all thank you to Justin for adding my post here, I didn't find these threads. I would also like to apoligise if I say anything that has been said before in this current thread since I haven't read the previous posts here.

ok, let's move on

@MURAI: Please explain your no

@Arthyron: You seem to know much about Satanism, might I ask where you learned so much?
but we do believe in an entity called Satan with the diffrence that it's not the Satan that christianity discribes. For us it's more the dark force of nature which had played an important role in every aspect of history.

It is obivious that they chose Satanism as name for the religion since it started as a protest against christianity and Satan is the opposite from god to Christians. But yet Satanism has grown and extended to the protest movement is once was but they can't change they're name anymore because it would cause too much confusion.

Satanism can indeed be discussed without mentioning Christianity but it always comes back because of the origin of Satanism.

@schivmeister: no real satanist will call upon lucifer himself to show himself, it's not our way, we just use our own energies mixed with the energy of Satan (the force of nature as I stated above). Ppl who claim to be real Satanist and conduct such things are usually just wannbes who've never heard of the Satanic bible.

 

[Arthyron]

@Arthyron: You seem to know much about Satanism, might I ask where you learned so much?
but we do believe in an entity called Satan with the diffrence that it's not the Satan that christianity discribes. For us it's more the dark force of nature which had played an important role in every aspect of history.

It is obivious that they chose Satanism as name for the religion since it started as a protest against christianity and Satan is the opposite from god to Christians. But yet Satanism has grown and extended to the protest movement is once was but they can't change they're name anymore because it would cause too much confusion.

Satanism can indeed be discussed without mentioning Christianity but it always comes back because of the origin of Satanism.

I listen, read, and keep an open mind, unlike a lot of my Christian brethren. I find all the world's religions and mythologies fascinating, and have studied them all fairly extensively (always trying to learn more). After all, we're all on a quest for the Truth (obviously some more fervent than others). If I do not understand all competitors for the Truth, how do I know that I'm not missing out on the one that IS true? Also, because I have reviewed so many and come to the conclusion that I have (in favor of the teachings of Christ), it greatly benefits me to know why and how people oppose what I believe so that I can relate to them and understand them. Much of Christinanity centers around spreading Christ's love. If I do not know my neighbor, how can I be an effective minister or witness to him? That is why I know what I know and continue to learn what I learn.

As for believing in an entity Satan as a dark force, I did mention that in my long tirade if you read carefully. I just mean that the force you dub Satan doesn't really resemble the Judeo-Christian force, and that it would have been more wise to choose another name that would lead to less confusion. Let's face it, there are a lot of people that have avoided your religion because of what they think it stands for, and your leaders have had to spend countless hours writing papers, appearing on television, and all those other things to refute the claims that you serve the Judeo-Christian evil spirit called Satan.

@schivmeister: no real satanist will call upon lucifer himself to show himself, it's not our way, we just use our own energies mixed with the energy of Satan (the force of nature as I stated above). Ppl who claim to be real Satanist and conduct such things are usually just wannbes who've never heard of the Satanic bible.

No real Satanist as far as LaVeyan Satanists go, but do remember that there are other types of Satanists that are unrelated to your plight, technically.

 

[Korona]

So is Sataism not Hedonism? if not why not?

If it is, how do you feel about being a part of a decadent religion?

 

[Arthyron]

So is Sataism not Hedonism? if not why not?

If it is, how do you feel about being a part of a decadent religion?

As I said before, Satanism is Hedonistic in spirit, but as I also said, it's Hedonism with a few stipulations, what I'd call "Smart Hedonism." In lay-man's terms, Satanism is basically "do what makes you feel good, provided it doesn't require you to be foolish/stupid, and the positives you recieve from it outweigh (at least in your mind) the negative consequences." There are a few rules about not harming another person or their property while in their home/place of residence/ownership. There's also a rule that vaguely resembles Grace, in the Christian religion, except whereas Grace is supposed to be unconditional in the Christian religion, in Satanism, Grace is limited. The rule basically states that if someone impedes you, ask them to get out of your way or stop messing with you, and if you they don't, you have every right to destroy them, whatever that means.

As I said, though, I'm not a Satanist, I'm a Follower of Christ (some would say a Christian, but I don't like the term). I just try to stay informed and open-minded by studying other systems of belief.

 

[OldScratch]

Yes, I think so. The three threads were redundant, and I dont see the point in watching the same discussion unfold in a new thread every X months- this new thread isnt unmanageably large, and one can draw on what was said before (there were some nice posts previously)... Why do you think its a poor move?

It wasn't the combination itself that was at issue - sent you a PM.

 

[Black Core]

I listen, read, and keep an open mind, unlike a lot of my Christian brethren. I find all the world's religions and mythologies fascinating, and have studied them all fairly extensively (always trying to learn more). After all, we're all on a quest for the Truth (obviously some more fervent than others). If I do not understand all competitors for the Truth, how do I know that I'm not missing out on the one that IS true? Also, because I have reviewed so many and come to the conclusion that I have (in favor of the teachings of Christ), it greatly benefits me to know why and how people oppose what I believe so that I can relate to them and understand them. Much of Christinanity centers around spreading Christ's love. If I do not know my neighbor, how can I be an effective minister or witness to him? That is why I know what I know and continue to learn what I learn.

+1 for that, I'm develloping serious respect for you

As for believing in an entity Satan as a dark force, I did mention that in my long tirade if you read carefully. I just mean that the force you dub Satan doesn't really resemble the Judeo-Christian force, and that it would have been more wise to choose another name that would lead to less confusion. Let's face it, there are a lot of people that have avoided your religion because of what they think it stands for, and your leaders have had to spend countless hours writing papers, appearing on television, and all those other things to refute the claims that you serve the Judeo-Christian evil spirit called Satan.

yes, but as I stated before, it started as protest and it doesn't matter if it has the same values or not, the protest goes on because of the chosen name.

No real Satanist as far as LaVeyan Satanists go, but do remember that there are other types of Satanists that are unrelated to your plight, technically.

true, like in every religion, there are extremists

There are a few rules about not harming another person or their property while in their home/place of residence/ownership

I'm having a few problems with that word rules, the 9 Satanic statements are not really rules, more like guidelines

 

[Έρεβος]

true, like in every religion, there are extremists

They are not in your religion. There are other types of satanism beyond the one main one, that are entirely different 'religions'.

 

[Black Core]

No, they still call themselves satanists (that's as far as I know)

 

[Έρεβος]

No, they still call themselves satanists (that's as far as I know)

Yes, and there are types of satanism far older than that which you practice. Yours is some kind of "philosophic satanism," using the word "satanism" to express a certain idea. Just because they use the same name does not mean they are the same religion, not by any means.

 

[Black Core]

the essance of it still remains the same, but it is just practiced diffrently

 

[Έρεβος]

the essance of it still remains the same, but it is just practiced diffrently

There is nothing, or very little, in common between different types of Satanism (unless they are branches from the same Satanism, but there are other "trees" altogether). It would be like saying Buddhism and Hinduism are the same religions.

 

[Έρεβος]

Well it doesn't seem these have been posted yet:


The Nine Satanic Statements

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!


The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


The Nine Satanic Sins

1. Stupidity

2. Pretentiousness

3. Solipsism

4. Self-deceit

5. Herd Conformity

6. Lack of Perspective

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies

8. Counterproductive Pride

9. Lack of Aesthetics

 

[speed]

Well it doesn't seem these have been posted yet:


The Nine Satanic Statements

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!


The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


The Nine Satanic Sins

1. Stupidity

2. Pretentiousness

3. Solipsism

4. Self-deceit

5. Herd Conformity

6. Lack of Perspective

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies

8. Counterproductive Pride

9. Lack of Aesthetics

I think these are interesting in that it is obvious these statements were recently written and really in many ways, have more truth in relation to the modern world then established ancient religions.

But this Satanism business is quite ridiculous. Truly, this is an exploitative religion, built either as a joke, or as a means of fleecing a flock of lonely gothic teens. The whole idea of a devil is now a romantic one, and any attempts to build a true religion based on such a notion, is even more ridiculous than its counterpoint.

 

[Korona]

Nine Satanic Sins

2. Pretentiousness

hahahahahahahhahahahahahaa

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth" are overtly pretentious. Does that mean the Satanists have sinned? How is an atheist meant to "sin" given this requires the notion of divine punishment...?


5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

holy smokes Batman it's the mating signal! to the pimpmobile!

 

[Έρεβος]

I think these are interesting in that it is obvious these statements were recently written and really in many ways, have more truth in relation to the modern world then established ancient religions.

But this Satanism business is quite ridiculous. Truly, this is an exploitative religion, built either as a joke, or as a means of fleecing a flock of lonely gothic teens. The whole idea of a devil is now a romantic one, and any attempts to build a true religion based on such a notion, is even more ridiculous than its counterpoint.

The church of satan is retarded, but the basic concepts & philosophies of the "religion" are interesting & intelligent with maybe an exception or two.

 

[speed]

The church of satan is retarded, but the basic concepts & philosophies of the "religion" are interesting & intelligent with maybe an exception or two.

They're interesting because anyone could have written them, hehe (see my LEts create a religion thread, and we can collectively come up with nonsense, and call it our own religion). These sins, statements etc, are like a gothic slightly reflective artistic version of hedonistic MTV philosophy.

 

[Black Core]

There is nothing, or very little, in common between different types of Satanism (unless they are branches from the same Satanism, but there are other "trees" altogether). It would be like saying Buddhism and Hinduism are the same religions.

alright then, give me the diffrences then you can clearfy them

I think these are interesting in that it is obvious these statements were recently written and really in many ways, have more truth in relation to the modern world then established ancient religions.

But this Satanism business is quite ridiculous. Truly, this is an exploitative religion, built either as a joke, or as a means of fleecing a flock of lonely gothic teens. The whole idea of a devil is now a romantic one, and any attempts to build a true religion based on such a notion, is even more ridiculous than its counterpoint.

They were recently written indeed, Lavey wrote the Satanic bile in 1968, altough I've seen the Satanic rules of the earth in there altough they are explained there. The sins are also explained in the whole bible but not summerized.

I think you have a wrong image of satanism there, speed, the devil has little to do with it. Just read these statements again, you'll see that the devil isn't really mentioned much And goths are often mistaken for satanist which they are not.

They're interesting because anyone could have written them, hehe

Ever heard of the egg of columbus?

@Korona: one must read the entire bible to understand these things correctly. We all sin, that's part of being a human being but the most important aspect of Satanism to me is TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. It's a very important part of freedom, I think. When you make a mistake, and you know in your heart that what you did is wrong, you accept it, take responsibility for it, and learn from it. You treat that mistake as a learning experience, and do your best not to repeat it. I see no reason to ask anyone for forgiveness. If I've forgiven myself, and have learned a lesson fron it, I can move forward and put it behind me. (thank you to DeviousDVO on my forum to put is so nicely).

 

[MURAI]

first of all thank you to Justin for adding my post here, I didn't find these threads. I would also like to apoligise if I say anything that has been said before in this current thread since I haven't read the previous posts here.

ok, let's move on

@MURAI: Please explain your no

@Arthyron: You seem to know much about Satanism, might I ask where you learned so much?
but we do believe in an entity called Satan with the diffrence that it's not the Satan that christianity discribes. For us it's more the dark force of nature which had played an important role in every aspect of history.

It is obivious that they chose Satanism as name for the religion since it started as a protest against christianity and Satan is the opposite from god to Christians. But yet Satanism has grown and extended to the protest movement is once was but they can't change they're name anymore because it would cause too much confusion.

Satanism can indeed be discussed without mentioning Christianity but it always comes back because of the origin of Satanism.

@schivmeister: no real satanist will call upon lucifer himself to show himself, it's not our way, we just use our own energies mixed with the energy of Satan (the force of nature as I stated above). Ppl who claim to be real Satanist and conduct such things are usually just wannbes who've never heard of the Satanic bible.

It is a joke because it is done as a reaction to Christianity rather than being original, or as speed said earlier for cunt teenagers to look cool by rebelling the MTV way. Hey, rebellion has always been the hip way to go.

The Nine Satanic Sins

1. Stupidity

2. Pretentiousness

...
5. Herd Conformity

Do you get the contradictions here? Wait, I thought they were arguing how "limited" traditional religions are by creating ideas like "sins" and we should be free to do as we want. On 5, To fit in any religion you have to conform to the group and follow some rules because most of us do have some "herd" instinct within us. Not just religion, but society will create rules and values to group us. Wait! How about being non-conformist and not buying all these Satanism rules and joining them in the first place. By the way, they are clever to add some "edgy" Nietzsche philosophy in there, eh? With the celebration of the body and celebrating rebellion against Christianity and all. If you were to buy this, I guess you suffered the first sin listed here.

 

[Korona]

yea I love how Satanism gives so many tacit nods to Nietzsche given his attitude towards any form of Hedonism was one of such complete contempt.

 

[OldScratch]

yea I love how Satanism gives so many tacit nods to Nietzsche given his attitude towards any form of Hedonism was one of such complete contempt.

It would seem the irony there is lost on most, made only more ludicrous by the fact that virtually all of LaVey's "philosophy" is but a cobbed-together mix of Nietzsche, assorted Occult gobbeldygook, and verbatim plagarism from the infamous "Might Is Right" screed, which by and by was a far more entertaining read in context than LaVey's ponderous pseudo-religious nonsense. (In fairness though, to an impressionable longhaired teenage "rebel" in the 80's, who knew not Nietzsche from Nebuchadnezzar - LaVey's bombast was very impressive I thought for sure I knew it all then...