Cubase 5 - Semi-Automatic Drumediting - New Concept!!

[darthjujuu]

well it works perfectly fine for my stuff (have you listened to the file ?)
of course in theory this might be a problem, but i dont care as long as it sounds 100 % correct ;-)

but yeah, i wouldnt use this strategy on real snares/kicks.

in this example phase coherency might not be as important, because
i high pass my oh/room @ 300 Hz...

yea, like i said i've done it (in protools) and it can be pass-able when buried in a metal mix and sampling the shells. that being said, call me crazy, but i think i can still detect a LITTLE bit of phasey oddness in those cymbals in the clip you posted. still sounds good n' tight for sure, i don't think anyone short of an engineer could notice in a mix context.

but i still think you'd be better off slipping on a higher-end (and higher paying) project.

 

[JeffTD]

jeff, no problems at all with stereo image .
listen to this clip i did for my latest editing/mixing job. :

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3233582/cubase_phase coherent multitimetstretching.mp3

did it with the method described above.
(remember i sitll have 2 overheads and 2 room mics for this mix)

i havent tried that on real shellsets (this band only provided ugly trigger signals, hehe

Yeah, it's not really noticable in there, but those cymbals sound pretty bad to begin with, and I'm almost positive I hear phasing issues.

Can you post the OH mics solo'd? Or the room mics hard panned and solo'd? That's what matters.

The biggest problem ends up in the the mix stage, when you're destroying the room mics with compression, it really brings those inconsistencies out.

 

[dcb]

Yeah, it's not really noticable in there, but those cymbals sound pretty bad to begin with, and I'm almost positive I hear phasing issues.

Can you post the OH mics solo'd? Or the room mics hard panned and solo'd? That's what matters.

The biggest problem ends up in the the mix stage, when you're destroying the room mics with compression, it really brings those inconsistencies out.

oke! i will post them individually tomorrow!

hehe. again i get you guys, and i totally think your right that
problems might occur. i also wouldnt do that on a full kit with
no samplereplacement. but somehow i guess this stretching algo is
transient aware and does not touch em...

btw. i learned the whole editing stuff from my multiplatinmumprotools
dvds i bought a while ago. have you guys wathced that stuff ?
they do timestretching all the time in nashville...

and these guys are into real acoustic stuff, not metal ;-)
the difference of course is they cut and stretch AFTER transients.

 

[JeffTD]

I have the multiplatinum protools editing book and I don't remember anything about stretching drums at all? Seriously, stretching drum decay is just a bad idea - stretching phase coherent, stereo material is a bad idea period.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Yeah I have never tried this in cubase, but I know it BLOWS in pro tools.

 

[006]

Slip Edit > all

 

[darthjujuu]

if any of you have any multi-mic guitar tracks (like fredman style for example), try grouping and time stretching them even just a few ms. sounds like a phase pedal just got stomped. i've actually used this as an effect before.

 

[dcb]

I have the multiplatinum protools editing book and I don't remember anything about stretching drums at all? Seriously, stretching drum decay is just a bad idea - stretching phase coherent, stereo material is a bad idea period.

there is a chapter about multi editing drums and believe me they do it like this..
http://www.multi-platinum.com/mpp/mpte/trackediting.html

how can these guys be completely wrong with this method ?

again, i just thought id offer everyone over here my method,
its fast and effective. id recommend you guys go try the methods yourself.
slip editing is in fact a very efficient way, but this method im currently using is (to my ears) more pleasing (no "decay-repeating" esp on hihats)
and way faster.

>>if any of you have any multi-mic guitar tracks (like fredman style for >>example), try grouping and time stretching them even just a few ms. >>sounds like a phase pedal just got stomped. i've actually used this as an >>effect before.

that is because of the polyphonic information in guitar tracks.
it actually works perfectly with monophonic tracks. (but not on bass guitar...)
there is different timestretching modes in cubase 5, i use musical complex (i think thats what its called).

im not saying this is THE method to go for, but its worth trying out,
and if your in a hurry and bands wont pay you for editing (their shitty performance) this is very (time,cost) effective. ;-)

 

[JeffTD]

there is a chapter about multi editing drums and believe me they do it like this..
http://www.multi-platinum.com/mpp/mpte/trackediting.html

how can these guys be completely wrong with this method ?

again, i just thought id offer everyone over here my method,
its fast and effective. id recommend you guys go try the methods yourself.
slip editing is in fact a very efficient way, but this method im currently using is (to my ears) more pleasing (no "decay-repeating" esp on hihats)
and way faster.

that is because of the polyphonic information in guitar tracks.
it actually works perfectly with monophonic tracks. (but not on bass guitar...)
there is different timestretching modes in cubase 5, i use musical complex (i think thats what its called).

im not saying this is THE method to go for, but its worth trying out,
and if your in a hurry and bands wont pay you for editing (their shitty performance) this is very (time,cost) effective. ;-)

Huh... totally different program I was talking about apparently. The one I have: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0240520238/ref=nosim/thecrimsonbirdbo


Anyways, I took a listen to the track you PM'd me - you're right, oddly enough, there's none of the usual artifacts there.

I still don't feel comfortable at all with it, though... and if you do slip editing right, it's completely inaudible, so I dunno what you mean by 'more pleasing to the ear' (decay on hihats sounds like a badly slipped edit half the time anyways )

I don't think the reason is because of polyphonic information, though - like you said, it doesn't work with bass guitar, and theoretically, it wouldn't work with drums since the bleed is definitely polyphonic.

 

[dcb]

Huh... totally different program I was talking about apparently. The one I have: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0240520238/ref=nosim/thecrimsonbirdbo

haha ;-) sorry, i thought those were the same guys ;-)

about the polyphonic thing :
editing bass in cubase via timestretching works pretty good at times.
stretching chord based stuff (being polyphonic) ends up sounding
like shit in cubase. (my experience)

cymbals and hihats being mostly white noise (i know its not really white noise, but there is no pitch in there) no problems at all with stretching...

jeff : we should do tests on the board and start a poll which mehtod sounds better (something like a blind test, ya know)
whatya think ? ;-)

 

[JeffTD]

jeff : we should do tests on the board and start a poll which mehtod sounds better (something like a blind test, ya know)
whatya think ? ;-)

I'd be down, I've not got much going on while my RME is in the shop! But theoretically, they should sound identical as far as the quality of edits. I do my slip editing and check based on the criteria of 'not being able to hear an edit.'