Cymbal swells with programmed drums - how?

[Morgan C]

I can't pull these off convincingly, you can always hear the attack on every single note too well. It doesn't have to be a super smooth cymbal swell like with a soft mallet, but something realistic - either building up before a big hit, or after a big hit letting the cymbals 'simmer' for a bit. Can anyone pull this off?

 

[setyouranchor]

I've managed to do this once or twice. They don't sound totally convincing but in a mix it's really not too bad. I think it totally depends on the cymbals samples more than the actually programming. However, I think it is just a matter of clever and careful velocity placement

 

[mstone564]

I've been wanting to know how this is done for the LONGEST time. If someone could elaborate on it that would be awesome.

 

[PeterPaul760]

Think like a drummer and velocity is key. Soft to hard hits and you can pull it off no problem

 

[amarshism]

I've managed to do this once or twice. They don't sound totally convincing but in a mix it's really not too bad. I think it totally depends on the cymbals samples more than the actually programming. However, I think it is just a matter of clever and careful velocity placement

same, maybe putting it on another track with a longer comp release time to take away the attack of the next hits?

 

[Morgan C]

Think like a drummer and velocity is key. Soft to hard hits and you can pull it off no problem

Clips? I am a drummer and I'm usually pretty decent at programming but I can't pull this off. In a programmed case, every hit is a 'new' hit and has a 'tick' of attack. In a real case, every hit carries on from before and the attack is blurred.

 

[Sacha]

In Superior you can use the envelope shaping to take the attack off a cymbal; so load the one you want to use as an X-Drum, take off all the attack and then you can get a pretty realistic wash going.

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

For midi, i use controler 11 for swells, fades and chokes

 

[Greyanaroth]

I struggled with this for some time. Then had a fix which worked in most cases - it didn't sound THAT convincing, but served the job well, you can try and see if this works for you.

You take the cymbal sample (if using superior, you'll have to bounce the cymbal you want to do this to), reverse it (so you get the build up), and time stretch it (to make it sound a little washy and uneven) and then use a fade in tool and draw a fade to ear - you'll need something fairly non linear for this. And you end it with a straight hit of the cymbal in question. Sometimes, I've found, that you'll need to clip the end of the reversed sample (which was originally the actual hit) so the final straight hit you program cuts through. Otherwise it'll sound like just a washy end (you might keep this too, it works in some cases!)!

That envelope thing in superior also sounds like a great plan!! Thanks Sacha!

Lemme know if this works. I'm not sure I explained it that well!!

 

[Morgan C]

I struggled with this for some time. Then had a fix which worked in most cases - it didn't sound THAT convincing, but served the job well, you can try and see if this works for you.

You take the cymbal sample (if using superior, you'll have to bounce the cymbal you want to do this to), reverse it (so you get the build up), and time stretch it (to make it sound a little washy and uneven) and then use a fade in tool and draw a fade to ear - you'll need something fairly non linear for this. And you end it with a straight hit of the cymbal in question. Sometimes, I've found, that you'll need to clip the end of the reversed sample (which was originally the actual hit) so the final straight hit you program cuts through. Otherwise it'll sound like just a washy end (you might keep this too, it works in some cases!)!

That envelope thing in superior also sounds like a great plan!! Thanks Sacha!

Lemme know if this works. I'm not sure I explained it that well!!

This is what I'm doing atm, but it's not the same. WTB a real drummer.

In Superior you can use the envelope shaping to take the attack off a cymbal; so load the one you want to use as an X-Drum, take off all the attack and then you can get a pretty realistic wash going.

Will try this, thanks.

 

[mva801]

For midi, i use controler 11 for swells, fades and chokes

I was just thinking about this the other day. I haven't been able to figure out how to do a decent cymbal choke in Superior. Would you mind expanding on your method a bit, sir?

 

[Djunn]

I'm having problems with swells too but, SD2 already has choke samples, why don't you use them?

 

[OneDaySky]

Dude i got Cymbal swells down
I can send you a MIDI if you want? And a clip, just inbox me your email address!

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

I was just thinking about this the other day. I haven't been able to figure out how to do a decent cymbal choke in Superior. Would you mind expanding on your method a bit, sir?

First, isolate the cymbal you want to choke by putting it on it's own track.
Then, if you want the cymbal to last only a 1/4 note long, wth a sudden stop on the last 1/16th note, try this

Lets assume you are using Reaper's default 960 ticks per quater note.

Fist, a disscusion on the difference between cc 11 and cc 7.
Controller 11 (expression) has values of 127 (all up) to 0 (off)
Also. remember that cc 11 is a subset of cc 7 (volume), so if your your overall volume is 100, than cc 11 at 127 has a volume of 100. cc 11 at 64 has volume of 50. and cc 11 at 0 has a volume of 0
Both CC 7 and 11 work in concert

Now go to your Daw event controler drawing pencil, and for a crash hit, start the the first hit at cc 11 - 127 for 720 ticks (the first 3 1/6 notes of the 1/4 note), than draw a 90 degree angle of cc 11 events from 127 to 0, starting from tick 720 to tick 960, and, wa la - a cymbal choke.

Importent: If you have lot of cymble chokes to perfome one right after the other, make sure that each cymbal has it's own track, since, when you raise the cc 11 back to 127, you might get the tail end of the previous cymbal.

Also, if your using a midi for an external module, it is impotant that you give rapid fire cymbal chokes, swells and fades their own track and channel #

Hope this helps,

Mondo

 

[Morgan C]

Dude i got Cymbal swells down
I can send you a MIDI if you want? And a clip, just inbox me your email address!

Just post it here, I'm not the only one with this issue.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I've just been doing an x cymbol with soft mallets and playing the swell on my e kit.

 

[Nimvi]

same, maybe putting it on another track with a longer comp release time to take away the attack of the next hits?

+1, this would be my first intuition as well. Never had to do it, but I would probably take a compressor with a very short attack and a medium release to get rid of the attack all together. Pretty much just the opposite of adding punch to a drum. I guess you would have to automate the treshold to keep the compression even with the swell, depending on how precise you want to get.

Transient designers in general could help too I guess, altough I have very little experience with those.

 

[abt]

Just post it here, I'm not the only one with this issue.

+1 midi of it in action would be very helpful.

 

[abt]

I've just been doing an x cymbol with soft mallets and playing the swell on my e kit.

Does this work? I would have thought you'd just get loads of hits at different velocities?

 

[Scott Horner]

I get pretty decent results using my padKONTROL and actually "performing" the cymbal swell. You definitely have to find the right cymbal to do this with though as not all of them play nice with the technique.