zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
- Feb 9, 2007
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I watched 5m before my internet janked up. Didn't really motivate me to get another job.
If you're a "Juggalo", monoxide, why do you frequent an extreme metal forum?
Finished a bit of pseudo-theoretical rambling today:
http://roadsidepicnictalks.blogspot.com/2013/05/speculations-on-techno-capital.html
Could you dive into this broad statement a bit and explain what specifically about capitalism is being redefined during the current expansion of economic activity? Why do you attribute the expansion to the system of capitalism itself, as opposed to the individual players within the system? Personally i don't see the concept itself changing fundamentally, only the applications of it / the opportunities it can exploit.Capitalism’s persistent expansion thus appears not only as an appropriative colonization of ulterior cultural or economic forms; it also appears as a continual self-revision of its own terms and conditions. Following from this assertion, we must conclude that capitalism is always-already not itself. To put it another way: capitalism possesses no essence. Those desirable ideals of individualistic production and accumulation of capital, which are espoused as eternal, appear now as shockingly fragile and historically quarantined conceptions of our organic relationship to the external world; conceptions that will witness their own dismissal in due time.
zabu of nΩd;10622050 said:Could you dive into this broad statement a bit and explain what specifically about capitalism is being redefined during the current expansion of economic activity? Why do you attribute the expansion to the system of capitalism itself, as opposed to the individual players within the system? Personally i don't see the concept itself changing fundamentally, only the applications of it / the opportunities it can exploit.
As with free-falling bodies, it seems apparent that such quickening change, whether evolutionary, cultural, or technical, cannot accelerate indefinitely but must reach some terminal velocity. Call that terminal velocity a trigger point, where the rate of change of the system reaches such a level that the system’s underpinning, its ability to change, is changed. Trigger points come about when the progress of a system becomes so accelerated, its tools become so adept at self-replicating and self-modifying, that it thrusts an awareness of itself onto itself and reaches the terminal velocity of self-reflection.
I disagree with the definition of capitalism that Pat uses, but as it is the popular definition that's not really his "fault". I view it strictly from a Human Action perspective, and everything or anything else out side of that, if it becomes divorced from human action, is simply something else, and not an expansion, transformation, or abandonment of humanity by capitalism. I would like to critique the writing further but as well written as it is it deserves time in response I do not have at this moment.
Back to the general line "More than the the sum", I heard this ad nauseum in the Marines, and there it was an emotional based appeal to be sure (the actual phraseology most often used for the Marines was "being a part of something greater than yourself", but when expanded in the various motivational speeches, was more essentially that the Marines became something greater together than just the mere collection of individual Marines).
The cynical part of me was rather unreceptive initially, and the more I have contemplated the concept and read support for it, this conviction only grows more firm. What I see is that artificial limits are created on what counts as "the sum", and then everything outside that is just ignored and voila: There is an excess left over to which this mystic explanation is applied.
I attribute it to the system itself (as opposed to the players) because I don't believe we can actually reduce all the effects and results of global capitalism to its individual players.
........ it becomes impossible to correlate these developments with individual human action on a one-to-one basis.
It definitely is the popular definition, as well as the one that most humanistic-academic criticism uses. That said, I believe it isn't entirely unjustified.
I really strongly oppose the human action perspective, but I would still love to see/read something more on it. If you do something of the sort in the future, definitely let me know. I've read Mises's bits on praxeology as well as some of the other things you've posted, and I can't say I'm convinced. Most of my doubts derive from poststructuralist theoretical models in the vein of Derrida, Foucault, and Baudrillard.
I don't think my appeal to emergence as an explanation for phenomena becoming more than the sum of their parts has much pathos. If anything, it strikes me as somewhat disheartening. It's a philosophico-scientific argument that only appeals to emergence into order to suggest a theoretical model as to how complex systems can exceed human control. Not much empowering about that.
I attribute it to the system itself (as opposed to the players) because I don't believe we can actually reduce all the effects and results of global capitalism to its individual players. This is, in my opinion, a lingering element of what I would call the "mythology of the individual." I don't mean to say that I am by any means free of this ideology, or that possessing individual subjectivity doesn't warrant any attention at all. What I do mean to imply is that our obsession with individual responsibility and power creates a tendency to attribute all material forces to individual causes. I don't think this adds up.
This isn't to say that individuals play no part; on the contrary, they play an important role. But the accumulation of capital, the squalor of the Third World, the exponential growth in cybernetics and artificial intelligences, the flux of the market, the abstraction of finance capital, etc. - it becomes impossible to correlate these developments with individual human action on a one-to-one basis.
This is actually the most important aspect of what is being redefined about capitalism: where at one point we may have been able to account for market transactions and behavior through recourse to human action, this is no longer the case. It is redefining itself by putting pressure on human agency. Capitalism, historically speaking (i.e. in terms of human knowledge) is a system that corresponds to human agency and intention.
This reply to the post isn't going to provide a detailed critique, but I see what appears to me an obviously glaring issue: If individual consciousness is not actual, then there is no convincing argument for any sort of "collective" or "meta" consciousness. What you or I do not have, "we" can not have either. This is the same problem that is run into constantly when the individual is denied on philosophical, political, or economic level. If "we" have "it", then you and I have "it", although maybe to a lesser degree than the combined amount. To say "we" have consciousness without any individual having it, or "real" or "actual" consciousness or any other variant/distinguishing adjective, without each one of us having any, is absurd.
[talking about the Chaplin twins] Our view countenances the theoretical possibility not only of MPD but FPD (Fractional Personality Disorder). Could it be? Why not? I'm not for a moment suggesting that these twins were linked by telepathy or ESP or any other sort of occult bonds. I am suggesting that there are plenty of subtle, everyday ways of communicating and coordinating (techniques often highly developed by identical twins, in fact). [...] But in any case, wouldn't there also be two clearly defined individual selves, one for each twin, and responsible for maintaining this curious charade? Perhaps, but what if each of these women had become so selfless (as we do say) in her devotion to the joint cause, that she more or less lost herself (as we also say) in the project?
I could super simplify my argument against the denial of the individual to this phrase: "Tell me how that works out for you".
There's no personal practical application because you have decided there is no person. Just a blob of organic material with some virtual oddity. May as well go turn yourself into fertilizer. Regardless, everything you do is pointless.......But somehow what WE do is not. In the meantime, the people peddling this nonsense are profiting quite handsomely. But it doesn't matter. Because even if they profit, it's not real. Because they don't exist. We are actually profiting. So when Bill Gates or Vladimir Putin sips a Martini, I do. Because neither of us does, "we" do. It's not even your blog or thoughts, it's "our" blog and thoughts.
All education is immediately invalidated. No individual teacher has anything of value to dispense. You're wasting your time, as are all the authors you quote. Of course if there is no you, you can't waste your time can you?
Wrong kind of "we." Consciousness isn't collective in the sense that you and I share simultaneous insight, or some mystical form of telekinesis. It's collective in the sense that "you" cannot be reduced to a single individual. Multiple personalities and subjectivities comprise the body that you think is yours. The consciousness of your body is shared my a multiplicity of subjectivities.
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This goes back to my car analogy and the problem of arbitrary definitions. You presented a compelling argument not long ago to dispel some of my cognitive dissonance regarding materialism and the individual. You are now arguing against what you previously argued for, although I don't think you've made the connection.
Just as we might dissect the individual body all the way down to the cellular level, this doesn't negate the individual. This just gives us a better understanding of the parts. We could, in theory, just handwave everything of practical concern and make a statement like "everything is mostly just carbon (or even more vaguely "matter") so what's the difference?" and be about as un-useful as I consider the attempts to deconstruct the individual in what is little more than abstract.
That individuals do constantly change due to a variety of reasons we do not even fully comprehend or take into account, does not somehow invalidate the individual, anymoreso than our lack of understanding about the physical body negates/ed it.
To argue otherwise is to stray from materialism into esoterism.
Now, there is actually evidence that consciousness can (somehow) be shared beyond the confines of the body. The following is also from Dennett's Consciousness Explained:
Incidents like this are rare, but they suggest alternative modes of subjectivity and consciousness.
So what?
To contribute to this: asking how it works out for "me" isn't even a relevant question.
If the concept didn't self-invalidate, then yes.
I don't think it's a waste of time. The text I write isn't mine. The thoughts I think aren't mine. The authors I quote make money off them because we live in a culture entirely founded upon the sacredness of the individual. There's no reason to assume that the individual is eternal and absolute simply because the society we live in rewards the individual. We're products of our environment, and our environment is changing.
We are partially products of the environment (depending on your definition of environment, maybe totally), but the environment is also partially a product of us. There is no "ceteris paribus" in real life.
I don't see why there is a necessity for the individual to be eternal (IE an eternal "soul") to validate it.
Based on the way this portion is written, I suspect you think my waste of time critique was based on a monetary, or wealth perspective. This is not correct. I mean that if there is no you or me to create , exchange, or receive, then all communication is pointless. "We" already know all, yet none of us know anything. None of us have anything. We have all. Your blog is pointless. Einstein is who gives a shit? Why are we even on this forum?
I personally find today's technological, scientific, and philosophical developments to be deconstructing the individual. I'm not arguing for political measures toward this, I'm only attempting to identify what I see as a larger cultural tendency. If it proves true, and thus obsolete, so be it.
Deconstruction is not the same thing as obsoletion or replacement. So either you need a different word choice or to rethink the ramifications of inquiries and potential discoveries into the way the brain/body/consciousness works. I don't see how discovering that my brain does things faster than I can "consciously" comprehend it somehow makes me obsolete. It's certainly not materialist, whatever it is.
What I see is a constant scrabbling for some new piece of evidence to somehow validate a practically and theoretically invalidated political and social order, with no round hole left unmolested by square pegs.
This goes back to my car analogy and the problem of arbitrary definitions. You presented a compelling argument not long ago to dispel some of my cognitive dissonance regarding materialism and the individual. You are now arguing against what you previously argued for, although I don't think you've made the connection.
Just as we might dissect the individual body all the way down to the cellular level, this doesn't negate the individual. This just gives us a better understanding of the parts. We could, in theory, just handwave everything of practical concern and make a statement like "everything is mostly just carbon (or even more vaguely "matter") so what's the difference?" and be about as un-useful as I consider the attempts to deconstruct the individual in what is little more than abstract.
That individuals do constantly change due to a variety of reasons we do not even fully comprehend or take into account, does not somehow invalidate the individual, anymoreso than our lack of understanding about the physical body negates/ed it.
To argue otherwise is to stray from materialism into esoterism.
We are partially products of the environment (depending on your definition of environment, maybe totally), but the environment is also partially a product of us. There is no "ceteris paribus" in real life.
I don't see why there is a necessity for the individual to be eternal (IE an eternal "soul") to validate it.
This led some philosophers to the erroneous conclusion that emergent effects could not be explained, or what amounts to the same thing, that an effect is emergent only for as long as a law from which it can be deduced has not yet been found. This line of thought went on to become a full fledged philosophy in the early twentieth century, a philosophy based on the idea that emergence was intrinsically unexplainable. This first wave of 'emergentist' philosophers were not mystical thinkers but quite the opposite: they wanted to use the concept of emergence to eliminate from biology mystifying entities like a 'life force' or 'élan vital.'
Based on the way this portion is written, I suspect you think my waste of time critique was based on a monetary, or wealth perspective. This is not correct. I mean that if there is no you or me to create , exchange, or receive, then all communication is pointless. "We" already know all, yet none of us know anything. None of us have anything. We have all. Your blog is pointless. Einstein is who gives a shit? Why are we even on this forum?
Deconstruction is not the same thing as obsoletion or replacement. So either you need a different word choice or to rethink the ramifications of inquiries and potential discoveries into the way the brain/body/consciousness works. I don't see how discovering that my brain does things faster than I can "consciously" comprehend it somehow makes me obsolete. It's certainly not materialist, whatever it is.