I'm a noob to this recording stuff and was reading some threads about mastering levels. Some guys were talking about dbFS and RMS and I was wondering what both meant and how they relate to each other. Some say they master to -10db RMS and others say -3dbFS. What is the correlation?
dbFS and RMS?
- Thread starter fader198
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TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
The meters in the majority of DAWs are peak meters, with some having RMS meters. RMS in electronic speak is the effective DC amount of work in an AC signal, and is a logarithmic half of the actual peak value. So if you have a sine wave peaking a -3dB (say peak voltage is 10v) then the RMS level will be -6dB (or 7.07vrms). Why is RMS important to audio? Because RMS is a better indicator of actual perceived volume than peaks. Because there are constant varying levels of many different frequencies, the average RMS (the effective peak work over a certain amount of time) will not be the same as simply taking the peak signal and multiplying is by .707, which means, the RMS level can be independent on the mix and use of compression and the general frequency balance of the instruments.. The RMS meters are giving you an idea of the average perceived volume where the peak meters will let you know if the signal is ever going over 0db. There is a general correlation, typically, the higher the Peak, the higher the RMS up to a certain point, the mastering process will bring up the RMS without increasing the peak (and when the peak is at 0dB, you can't increase it more, so you process to increase loudness (RMS)).
What is important to know is that the peak meters in your DAW are what allow you to know your absolute signal maximums and be be sure that you never go over. The RMS meter will help get the target loudness when you are using limiters/compressors so that while you don't have any clipping, your mix will be louder.
-10dBrms is the typical target number for metal mixes in terms of loudness, after mastering, the mix should peak at 0dBFS with an Average volume of -10dBrms give or take a dB or two, as every mix is different. There was a discussion about this a long time ago, there are some mixes that sound great but you can't push them louder than -12dB before you have audible clipping, where some mixes can easily go to -9dB.
What is important to know is that the peak meters in your DAW are what allow you to know your absolute signal maximums and be be sure that you never go over. The RMS meter will help get the target loudness when you are using limiters/compressors so that while you don't have any clipping, your mix will be louder.
-10dBrms is the typical target number for metal mixes in terms of loudness, after mastering, the mix should peak at 0dBFS with an Average volume of -10dBrms give or take a dB or two, as every mix is different. There was a discussion about this a long time ago, there are some mixes that sound great but you can't push them louder than -12dB before you have audible clipping, where some mixes can easily go to -9dB.
Thanks Wintersnow! That was much more understandable than the explanations I was finding on google.
I'm not near the point of mastering any projects but it's nice to know these things during the mixing process I've gathered.
I'm not near the point of mastering any projects but it's nice to know these things during the mixing process I've gathered.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
If all you are doing is mixing, the only thing you need to be worried about is the signal peak. The final 2 track (stereo) mix that is ready to be sent to master should peak around -12dB, that way, the mastering engineer has enough headroom to to processing and get the final loudness. Getting the mixes to 0dBFS @ -10dBrms is a mastering process, like I said all you are worried about is making sure your final mixes are around -12dBFS.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Ehhh that -12dbfs figure seems low to me - I generally mix with most of my individual tracks/busses peaking at around -18db, and the end result is around -6db on the 2bus.
El_Gato
I love this gain
AudioGeekZine
arsehole know-it-all
schust
Member
this is a good topic - and as a rule i use RMS levels (switch to RMS on my master in Reaper) when trying to set levels in a mix.
for example - i'll start with the kick and bring it up to like -18 for example - and then solo the bass and bring it up so it sits just below that. i find using PEAK to do this makes one louder than the other, usually the bass. RMS seems to be closer. i know a lot of this is personal taste (e.g. bass / kick levels) - but is using RMS to find relative levels in a mix better than PEAK?
for example - i'll start with the kick and bring it up to like -18 for example - and then solo the bass and bring it up so it sits just below that. i find using PEAK to do this makes one louder than the other, usually the bass. RMS seems to be closer. i know a lot of this is personal taste (e.g. bass / kick levels) - but is using RMS to find relative levels in a mix better than PEAK?
Djabthrash
Member
Sorry for thread resurrection, but what's up with the "levels meter : RMS +3dB" option that you can find on some A/D interfaces such as the RME FireFace UC ?
Why would one use that option (which adds 3dB to the RMS meter value, if i'm correct) ?
I guess i'd better leave this option off so that i can read the "right" RMS value on my meters ?
EDIT : that "RMS +3dB" is described as followed in the Fireface UC user manual : "Shifts the RMS value by +3dB, so that full scale level is identical for Peak and RMS at 0dBFS"
Why would one use that option (which adds 3dB to the RMS meter value, if i'm correct) ?
I guess i'd better leave this option off so that i can read the "right" RMS value on my meters ?
EDIT : that "RMS +3dB" is described as followed in the Fireface UC user manual : "Shifts the RMS value by +3dB, so that full scale level is identical for Peak and RMS at 0dBFS"
