Death - The sound of perseverance

[anonymousnick2001]

Actually, InFlames101, I think he does.

As pioneering and original early Atheist and the band Cynic were(Focus is a great album), that in no way has anything to do with TSOP's achievements.

The 'noodling' on TSOP results in aurally pleasing melodies 90% of the time. And if noodling is bad, I'm assuming you have no taste for progressive rock and metal bands, who spend ten-minute stetches noodling and wanking. And I like it.

I think Demiurge here is jealous of what Chuck achieved on his latter albums in terms of complexity and melodicism, and therefore uses the excuse of "he didn't do it first!" to justify the music as deserving any less praise than it already receives.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Perhaps you should elucidate your comments about how the structure is basically stadium rock.

Verse/Chorus

You lose, now move along.

 

[InFlames101]

Verse/Chorus

You lose, now move along.

Oh come on. You can do a little better than that. I expected a lengthy, verbose, self-indulgent post from you.

Just saying something resembles stadium rock in verse/chorus doesn't make it so. And I said "elucidate", not make one proclamatory statement and then proceed with a lame attempt to belittle someone.

Also, I feel so inadequate now that I "lost" this little argument, you know seeing as how I simply ASKED him to validate his choice of words, and nothing more.

 

[Demiurge]

He's right about the basic, circular arrangement patterns, now move the fuck along!

Anonymousnick is just pestering me with poorly disguised ad hominens.

Anyway, yes, they do have something to do with TSOP. TSOP blatently ripped them off and did a shitty job of it to boot. If you can read, you'll notice that I didn't merely say "he didn't do it first so he sucks", Chuck's bandwagon jumping is one of many flaws.

Aurally pleasing? What do I care? 99% of the population thinks pop is "aurally pleasing", this hardly makes it good. Idiots such as yourself are responsible for this phenomenon.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Nothing more need be said about the subject than what I said, child. Structurally, the album follows a basic verse-chorus-bridge pattern throughout, so strucuturally, it is indistinguishable from stadium rock.

And yes, I suppose it is a "proclamatory statement," in the same way that "The sky is blue" is a proclamatory statement. Neither needs further "elucidation," because they're statements of self-evident reality. Now run along and play with your Legos, kid.

 

[InFlames101]

Nothing more need be said about the subject than what I said, child. Structurally, the album follows a basic verse-chorus-bridge pattern throughout, so strucuturally, it is indistinguishable from stadium rock.

And yes, I suppose it is a "proclamatory statement," in the same way that "The sky is blue" is a proclamatory statement. Neither needs further "elucidation," because they're statements of self-evident reality. Now run along and play with your Legos, kid.

Wow, playing with legos, that sure is a caustic remark. Almost as insulting as say, to tell someone to "play in the mud" or to "draw in his colorbook". But I suppose a man of your creative imagination makes nothing but witty epigrams.

And I never said the structure wasn't that of stadium rock. What I meant in my post was for you to explain what generic stadium rock is. Perhaps even give an example of a stadium rock song and its structure. My point was that just because you say stadium rock structures are basically verse-chorus-bridge does not make it so. All I asked for was some empirical evidence or descriptive analysis so it doesn't seem like you pulled that theory out of your ass. And just because something is self-evident to you, does not make it self-evident to everyone else. Perhaps you should stop openly declaring statements and actually explain why they are what you proclaim them to be. It would help to avoid many semantic arguments and disagreements that arise as a result.

But I can see how that is so demanding of you, with you writing such grandiose reviews of obscure bands whose ideologies consent with yours.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

^

Yeah!!!

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

*Yawn*

Again, you ask for "empirical" proof of that which is self-evident. You want to know what colour the sky is? Step the fuck outside, kid. You want to know what stadium rock structures are like? Download a fucking Foreigner album. I'm not your mother. Do your own goddamn homework.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Well, I have yet to hear a similarity between the song structures of Foreigner and Death on TSOP.

Why don't you just admit that you don't like the album, and then go away?

By the way, it's "color".

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Well, I have yet to hear a similarity between the song structures of Foreigner and Death on TSOP.

Why don't you just admit that you don't like the album, and then go away?

By the way, it's "color".

So you're saying that there's no STRUCTURAL similarity between one band using verse/chorus arrangements and another band using verse/chorus arrangements? Are you a simpleton, or just deliberately obtuse?

Incidentally, you fucking dumbass:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=colour

 

[anonymousnick2001]

You may be surprised to learn that changing the order of verses, number of choruses, or any combination of the above results in a multitude of different song structures. Some even unconventional.

Oh, also:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=color

And look! I did it all without dropping a solitary infantile/vulgar insult.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

You may be surprised to learn that changing the order of verses, number of choruses, or any combination of the above results in a multitude of different song structures. Some even unconventional.

Verse/chorus is verse/chorus is verse/chorus, dragging it out with superfluous riffs or inserting an extended bridge (which is the MOST Death ever did) doesn't change the fundamentally conventional, rock based nature of the arrangements themselves. Death's arrangements are not only fundamentally no different from those of traditional rock music, they are almost identical to those used by virtually every metal band before or since (which is to say basic verse/chorus/bridge construction drawn out at between 4 and 6 minutes a song). What Death did that was superficially "different" was their use of technically demanding rhythms (though this was not all THAT different, having largely been lifted from Coroner and early Cynic) within a wholly convential structural framework.

Oh, also:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=color

Yes, and note how I never suggested that "color" was not a perfectly viable spelling. You, however, implied that "colour" was incorrect. It isn't, you buttfucking ninny. Clearly, the "get it" train pulled out of the station with you still on the platform.

 

[Demiurge]

I never claimed to be able to tell you that Wagner is superior to Beethoven. I cannot make decisions of personal preference for you, though I can tell you that a steaming pile of shit is, in fact, a steaming pile of shit. That you disagree is evidence of your aversion to the truth or your stupidity, nothing more. Unlike Chuck, I am not arrogant and self-indulgent, just honest.

There is nothing the least bit progressive about TSOP. Massacra integrated narrative, classically-derived structures into death metal way back when Death was aping Possessed. By the late 90s, Chuck still hadn't caught on. He chose to make bad pop music instead.

This discussion is over, you have lost. Save face, go home, do anything but embarrass yourselves further.

 

[InFlames101]

I never claimed to be able to tell you that Wagner is superior to Beethoven. I cannot make decisions of personal preference for you, though I can tell you that a steaming pile of shit is, in fact, a steaming pile of shit. That you disagree is evidence of your aversion to the truth or your stupidity, nothing more. Unlike Chuck, I am not arrogant and self-indulgent, just honest.

There is nothing the least bit progressive about TSOP. Massacra integrated narrative, classically-derived structures into death metal way back when Death was aping Possessed. By the late 90s, Chuck still hadn't caught on. He chose to make bad pop music instead.

This discussion is over, you have lost. Save face, go home, do anything but embarrass yourselves further.

Well at least you do a good job of convincing yourself you're right.

Because when you say something is a steaming pile of shit, you are telling the truth, not just voicing your opinion. I honestly don't see how I could have missed that. Well, I guess I should restructure my entire epistemological foundation.

I'm not saying that your viewpoints are wrong, but you speak from a very narrow-minded perspective and the terminology you use to support your "self-evident truths" are mostly subjective terms. You're trying to instill objectivity into a discussion about personal perferences and the only thing that you're accomplishing is convincing yourself and those who agree with you of your ideological beliefs. If you're going to assume such an authoritative tone when you voice your opinions, the least you can do is provide some examples in case other people don't agree with your supposed innate views. And just calling something that doesn't agree with you stupid is not a valid form of logical argumentation.

Just thought I'd point that out. But then again, you probably will just not bother to address my points, say that I lost, and tell me to stop embarrassing myself.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

I don't think it's fair to characterize later Death as "pop music." Granted, Death's last four records basically took ideas pioneered by other, more adventurous acts and presented them in a highly accessible, saccharine format, but this was due more to a lack of vision on Chuck's part (and his own basically populist outlook) than on any deliberate attempt to appeal to the mainstream. This adherence to basic structures is, of course, limiting, but it is not in and of itself fatally damning. Where The Sound of Perseverance fails is in execution, as the band's tendency to noodle ruined the record. Rock structures are perfectly functional, they just demand an anthemic approach that Death foolishly eschewed in favor of a masturbatory display of chops. Human worked precisely because it avoided the obnoxious overplaying that poisoned both Individual Thought Patterns and The Sound of Perseverance.

 

[Demiurge]

Later Death is simpering, populist, mawkish bullshit, but it still doesn't qualify as pop. Just lousy pseudo-death metal. 'Twas an exaggeration for effect.

Examples have been provided, I've discussed flaws in the music. If you think I'm going to go pull the CD out, listen to it and say things like "a noodly, pointless bridge disrupts track #3 exactly 58 seconds into the song...", you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Demiurge]

I agree, circular songwriting does not alone damn a record. It limits its scope though. When done well, we get a fun album, not a transcendental one.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I don't think it's fair to characterize later Death as "pop music." Granted, Death's last four records basically took ideas pioneered by other, more adventurous acts and presented them in a highly accessible, saccharine format, but this was due more to a lack of vision on Chuck's part (and his own basically populist outlook) than on any deliberate attempt to appeal to the mainstream. This adherence to basic structures is, of course, limiting, but it is not in and of itself fatally damning. Where The Sound of Perseverance fails is in execution, as the band's tendency to noodle ruined the record. Rock structures are perfectly functional, they just demand an anthemic approach that Death foolishly eschewed in favor of a masturbatory display of chops. Human worked precisely because it avoided the obnoxious overplaying that poisoned both Individual Thought Patterns and The Sound of Perseverance.

Congratulations. You have impressed me by actually stating an opinion and then backing it up with reasonable evidence.

I agree for the most part, except in my opinion, the noodling works on the last three Death albums. Probably because the albums are melodic as well. I've got a soft spot for melodic metal, I guess. Although I do maintain that Human was a good album as well.

PE, you have removed yourself from my proverbial dartboard, which is now the lone home of a lonely and sexually deprived Demiurge.
As far as "colour" goes, it's still wrong in my book. The same goes for "flavour," "centre," "leadre" and "majour". Sorry...

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Leadre and majour aren't words, which is probably why they seem wrong to you.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I know...I was just fooling around. It's leader and major, I know, I know...

Sorry.