Death

[Kenneth R.]

So someone cut down by disease or a freak accident in the prime of life before he could find salvation has been given just as much of a chance at getting into heaven as someone who lives for a hundred years? Or is it all predestined, in which case there's no point in living a good life because you'll be rewarded or punished no matter what, depending on the luck of the draw.

I don't think a loving God would throw someone into a chaotic, indifferent universe and say, now, you have seventy-five years (give or take) to acheive spiritual perfection or you'll be damned for all eternity, and all the while you're going to have to dodge predators, famine, disease, other people, etc. but if any of them get you before you're ready for heaven, tough noogies.

i would say it is not predestined, and however long your life is, that is how long you are given. but life is not just a trial. you seem to be perplexed at the difficulty of following God's way. but what price would you set for eternal heaven? surely it would be more difficult than signing a dotted line. God is loving in that he wants to teach us, to enlighten us, and to give us the chance for this heaven he has created.

God's a hypocritical bully with a superiority complex. An omniscient deity excludes the possibility of free will. Likewise, an omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity excludes the possibility of evil. God is logically inconsistent.

i agree with your last two statements.

Also, if you read the bible, the list of way to get into hell is fairly large and includes some rather odd stuff. In fact it states that ALL people are sinners, death being the "wages of sin".
According to the bibile the olny way into heaven is through Jesus. So what happens to people who've never heard of him? Or those who lived before he was born? I guess they go the Hell? In fact it turns out God still judges then even if they lived before Jesus.

this much i agree with.

 

[Lord SteveO]

A good link i found on this subject of entering Heaven/Hell is here:

http://www.myfortress.org/NeverHeardGospel.html

It has a lot of reference to the bible. And seems to explain it all. I think it's possibly a bit biased though but it does raise a few good questions regarding who gets in.

 

[Cythraul]

What is death, and perhaps more importantly, what follows it? Do we pass into another world - what kind of world? Are we re-incarnated into this one - is our re-incarnated state related to how we led our previous life? Do we simply take another form on Earth; do we merge with the energy which surrounds us? Do you simply cease to exist with only our shells remaining, and can we ask this question without first defining identity; who are 'you', perhaps 'you' exist in everything you have made an impact on in life?

I don't know. Is there an invisible elephant standing next to me as I type this?

 

[Dushan S]

I don't know. Is there an invisible elephant standing next to me as I type this?

Well logic says that something like that is not possible. But there is a lot of people that thought that everything should be logical, and ended dead, overrun by the invisible elephants, if you know what I mean?

Or differently said, if we cannot see invisible elephant but someone gets killed by something we cannot explain it is really stupid to deny what we can't explain, as is usualy the case. There were molecules of O2 and we were breathing million years ago, even if there was no one to explain how lungs work, and show molecules of oxygen under the mycroscope. It is not wise to pressume that everything that is unexplainable on our current level of knowledge is just imagination.

 

[Spinoza]

I believe we must concentrate on our lifes and make the best of them we can . otherwise you just spoil this gift which only comes once . after death i think theres nothing and youll just no longer exist at all , finish . the way to live on still is when you have children and a little bit of you is in them , your blood , your character . teach them well and youll never be forgotten , grandchildren will still talk about you and so on . but dont expect anything after death but only may a beautiful funeral , youll not know .

 

[Crycheck]

I think it's impossible to even guess. I hate this question.

What if there are colors that the human eye can not see, in that case, how do they look?

 

[WhiteBoyFunk]

So someone cut down by disease or a freak accident in the prime of life before he could find salvation has been given just as much of a chance at getting into heaven as someone who lives for a hundred years? Or is it all predestined, in which case there's no point in living a good life because you'll be rewarded or punished no matter what, depending on the luck of the draw.

I don't think a loving God would throw someone into a chaotic, indifferent universe and say, now, you have seventy-five years (give or take) to acheive spiritual perfection or you'll be damned for all eternity, and all the while you're going to have to dodge predators, famine, disease, other people, etc. but if any of them get you before you're ready for heaven, tough noogies.

That wraps up how I feel about christ and all that entails even though I've been raised in a family of christians. Why would it be like that? I just don't understand it. I don't believe that life is over once it's through, but I don't think that christianity is the real answer either.

I think it's impossible to even guess. I hate this question.

What if there are colors that the human eye can not see, in that case, how do they look?

Oh, and there are. Examples of them are X-rays and Ultraviolet rays. How do they look? They simply don't, that's like asking how do frequencies outside the window of 20hz to 20khz sound? They don't because we can't hear or see these things! lol

 

[Nemain]

However i think the idea of death leading to a Heaven/Hell period before reincarnation makes could make some sense.
Look at it as a means of being punished or praised for one life before you get your next chance. Of course that means there would have to be some divine power giving us repeated chances which i can't believe at the moment.

One other point i've never heard raised abouth this. If when we die we (humans) are reincarnated, how is the population of this planet still increasing?

In some circles, including the Spiritualist Church - a rather odd concept in that they're christian, believe in heaven/hell, jesus etc but still believe in ghosts, reincarnation etc, is that some souls are new or pure, and that these may go straight to heaven or 'spirit', the final fulfillment, whilst others reincarnate until they are prepared for the final place. This would explain why there are so many souls to go around!

Of course you then have to consider the size of 'heaven'. Is it limitless, does it stretch to eternity so that fulfilled souls can enter forever more? Is heaven a place or a feeling. Does it have objects and people that can be identified from life on earth? Some say people find each other in heaven but how can this be when the have had various lives and contact with various people?

For example, if a man dies does he exist in heaven as a 30 year old with his now perfectly healthy wife or does he exist as a 70 year old and find his grandchildren? Does age exist in heaven? If not how do you identify with your mother, granfather, great grand-daughter? Perhaps the hardest part about understanding heaven, and the afterlife, is comprehending a world which is in no way similar to earth, where time/space/age/bodies(?) do not exist.

 

[Dushan S]

That wraps up how I feel about christ and all that entails even though I've been raised in a family of christians. Why would it be like that? I just don't understand it. I don't believe that life is over once it's through, but I don't think that christianity is the real answer either.

I think that people are forgetting one thing again and again: Take eastern or modernized western concept of afterlife, but our personality with its character traits is temporary and is for this life only. After death only soul or let's say consciousness remains, awareness, concetration of energy or whatever, but there is no person previously identifying with its body, emotions and thoughts. For most people it is really hard to imagine that thoughts are unnecessary, except if they have had short moment of bliss when in some situations intellectual apparatus was bypassed and their mind was just giving them results without thinking process. It is most often in dangerous or unexpected situations, but it can happen for instance while you are trying to solve mathematic problem, and after some looking at it there comes the result, even if you don't know how you got it. Then you check it step by step and find out it is right one, but somehow mind has bypassed intellect and gave you result directly. (language is here a bit limited, people often think that mind is intellect but it does not have to be)

Any way, death is end for all of us, talking here and having our opinions. There is no other life, heaven or hell for no person, and this comes from someone that was regressed in his past lives. At those places there is a different personality, having their own lessons to learn. What I have learned then is part of me now, but in unconscious way, and this is one and only life of person I am now, this "Me" will be never again after I die. There is a lot of missuse of reincarnation and heaven/hell idea, actually, both eastern and western mass religions are lying that there is some kind of chance to avoid dissapearance of your beloved yourself.

So in a way Christ and Budha ar both telling truth: There is only one chance, right now to get the best of life, and make yourself to be the best man that you can, and yes, there will be another time for your soul, and knowledge is not lost, they were obviously using this formulas for motivating their disciplies and other people to make changes for good in their lives. But they have "forgot" to tell us that there is no way that fragile ego machinery can survive physical death, or I guess that mass religion can't function if there is nothing they can sell to you for your loyalty and money, and afterlife in its different mythical forms is one of the finest goods on market.
So in that way, even atheist telling that this is all bulshit, and there is no other life for us, there is only a blackout, is actually right in his own views.

Again it is always interesting for me to see how truth on its deeper levels is making supposely contrary ideas and concepts, fit each other nicely and becoming part of the whole.

 

[Korona]

It's not possible to interlectually know what lies beyond death. But to suggest that we do things for interlectual reasons is wrong, at least in an absolute, or even important sense. We do things for lots of reasons. Is a religion useful and does it make us a better person?
Ultimatly this is how to the approach the question.
You can bash a religion for being illogical, but ultimatly there is no way to tackle religeous questions in a rational manner (saying "well I just end" doesn't get you off the hook, as there is no way to know). The only true alternative is nihilism but that forces us to say stupid stuff like "well death doesn't matter for me". Good luck living forever retards.

Our death defines our life. Our relationship to death makes us what we are in life. The best we can do is to strive to become a person at ease with their mortality because they have some way of brining the inconcievable nevertheless into focus and dealing with it in a positive manner. Anything else makes us a neurotic mess or a nihilist, refusingto deal with the issue at all and living in denial.

 

[derek]

i really cant plug this book enough: david jay brown, conversations on the edge of the apocolypse. It address' the question of consciousness after death.

 

[Cat5Messiah]

My beliefs are simple:

We are born to this world in human form and when we die, our souls (our true selves) will return to the afterlife (which could possibly be 'life').

A life on this planet (or any for that matter) is our true selves taking form of a being on that specific planet and learning from adaptation. Things we fail, accomplish, etc. are for our true selves (our souls) to learn from. We have hopes to reach ultimate wisdom and this is the way to succeed.

After we die here, our souls return to the afterlife and we analyze and interpret everything that we have learned during this life cycle. We also reflect on past lives and compare. Whatever time we decide to take before we are reincarnated is up to ourselves. If we feel we can take a break, we take a break. If we feel that we need to approach a lesson learned another way or wish to try and learn a new lesson, we reincarnate ourselves.

Ultimate wisdom is the key and that is my main belief on life and death.

NP: Symphony X - Awakenings

 

[Mercy/Severity]

What is death, and perhaps more importantly, what follows it? Do we pass into another world - what kind of world? Are we re-incarnated into this one - is our re-incarnated state related to how we led our previous life? Do we simply take another form on Earth; do we merge with the energy which surrounds us?

no one here would know, now would they....

 

[Vital Remains]

Well being a totally agnostic person, my beliefs are some where in the " rotting in a wooden (or aluminum) box after you pass" area. But the whole energy cannot be created or destroyed thing makes me think that after i die ill be plant fertilizer for the cemetary grass. So my energy will be transferred to another living thing. Im not a big science guy. Im more of a farm equpment repairmen kind of guy.

 

[Jenn]

I have quite a strange view on Death. I think when someone dies, and are laid to rest, they remain there for a good few hundred years maybe, maybe more, maybe less. And there they lie, recovering. And once recovery has taken place, a new life begins. No longer remembering what happened in the last life, though it is reported some people believe they can remember parts of their last life, I believe a small part of their previous personality remains inside them. And as this is just one huge cycle, parts of personalitys join, creating more complex a personality as the next.

 

[Seikojin]

I have seen alot of talk in my time of death and the afterlife and through it all I say live the life I am in now the way I want and when it's over, move onto whatever is next. Deal with things as they come.

I dunno about supernatural or deific aspects of death or life for that matter, as I havent really put something down as not possible by some physical, provable thing.

I'd say the closest I could say was epic and not really understandable at the time was when I was 5 and in Oregon. There were these huge forest fires. I didn't know they were going on because we didn't listen to the news. Somehow the clouds reflected red light down upon us from the sun and moon, so it seemed like the sky was made of blood. And then one day as we were driving from Oregon back to Washington, both sides of the road were walls of fire (later finding the road was I-5). I asked if we were going to hell. My parents didnt answer, they just laughed. Bastards.. heheheheh

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Well, I can't comment on the state of consciousness or the actual appearance or existence of reality or dimension, but I like the whole Heaven/Hell/Purgatory deal for souls, and the transcedence that is contained in the concept. The description of those places is given in perceptive terms to describe the effect, but the question is if the soul can "feel" what the mind and body feel.

And if you don't believe in souls, my answer is meaningless, so I digress.

 

[Horus]

The way I see it, in death, each person has happen to them what they believe is the fate of man after death, in whatever circumstances. If a person believes the whole Christian perception of death, then thats what they get. If they believe the whole Greek thing with Ellysium and Hades, then thats what they get. So you believe in the Catholic preception, with Heaven, Purgatory and the 9 planes of hell? Whatever the circumstances, may be, depends on what you recieve.
I personally believe that after death, my soul will descend into the void of time, and return to Paradise, which I have recently found to be Atlantis, where I came from.I base all of my beliefs on an ongoing psychosematic dream that I continue with every time I sleep. Since that's what I believe, that's what I'll get. Everybody has something different.

 

[JoeVice]

taken from the link provided by lord steveo....concerning accountability of those who have not heard of Jesus.

"And if a missionary or a Bible wasn't sent to them it is clear that none of them were truly seeking God. The Bible is clear that if you truly seek God that He will be found (Jeremiah 29:11-13; 1 Chronicles 28:9) and that God has placed us in the best time and place for this to happen (Acts 17:27)."

i'm sure that there are a few isololated tribes of people who have seeked out an answer to creation, and have not been reached by a missionary. and how about those who aren't concerned with seeking an answer....or don't even have a concept of God in their culture? according to what is above, they will be held responsible for that.

 

[DarkEcho]

Nothing sparks more fascination in my mind than this quesiton.. It is with utter horror and satisfaction that I think about this question. It keeps me awake several nights of each week, It causes me great distress...

sometimes I try to pray to "god"... I am afraid of dying, so I say: "God, whatever god is out there" then I say whatever I feel like saying at the time that would make me more comfortable. Whatever would ease my worry at the moment.. hoping and lying to myself that there is someone out there listening to my plea.

I hate this question, sometimes I wish I was a total dumbass who never thought about things like this, I would be much less worried all the time. but hey, it only happens to me at night...

during the day, my logical mind takes over and basically tells the bitch inside me to shutup and stop being such a little wuss. I am going to die, I will no longer exist, everything I am, Know, Knew, experienced, everything will be gone in the instant that I pass from alive to not. Its very simple everyone, we may not like it.. in fact.. who the hell would pass up heaven? Hell! if it were real Of COURSE I would be trying to get in! but its just not.. I hate to break it to those of you who are religious, but you know what? I really hope my message doesn't sway your mind at all, those of you who are religious have it made, you dont worry about death... those of us who know how it really is, we dont have the veil disguising deaths true form... we worry, and it can take its toll on the quality of ones life...

The main things that I worry about is that i am going to miss whatever goes on after i die... for instance, my friends will have some killer party and i wont be able to join in..

but that wont matter to me when im dead because i wont be aware, and if i WAS aware, i wouldnt give a SHIT. so i duno, looking at death from a living point of view fucking freaks me the fuck out. but if i change my position to looking at a life from a dead point of view, its nottoo bad. i just need to outlive all my friends and make sure all of the fun is over before i drop dead.