Designing the "right" synth sound

[Erkan]

Today, I fiddled around with the freeware synth Crystal. Man, what a flexible synth (once you get through the "barrier")! So I made a pretty cool sound which really helped me come up with like a half song (fuck yeah, finally, the writer's block eased), but once I double tracked some guitars, it just wasn't the same anymore. I liked the overall character of the sound, but when the guitars were tracked, the synth sound didn't sound good/was too corny/didn't cut through/got buried etc etc.

Now, I know that this can be fixed in mixing, automation, fitting the EQs together so they leave room for each other, but I still can't help but thinking there must be a few tips for synth sounds that are supposed to be used together with distortion guitars.

So how do you guys (well, those who ARE using synths ) go about when you design your sounds? Or do you just run presets and tweak them a little? I'm totally fresh at synths so any tip/hint would be helpful, maybe for others in here as well =)

Thanks and fire away!

 

[jrt12]

great question, i've wondered about this too. i mean, i know some things can be fixed in the mix, but i've got so little experience with synth sounds that i'm not sure if i'm missing some basic set up elements that woudl help all around. i dont even know if synths should ever be tracked stereo vs mono?

 

[Erkan]

My thoughts exactly!

 

[jacare]

Well... I can say to you Gojira that this is my hell man. I have dialed some cool (for my taste) sounds with GTG MX2008 but when I throw some guitars in they get buried... I wonder if someone would have any EQ tips (SYNTHS) for us here
I want to remember you that you've started this thread all wrong man. You should have spelled:
H0W D0 M1X 5YNTHZ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
or:
H0W D0 M4K3 50UNDZ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
We can't avoid him anymore pal... seriously...
¯\(°_o)/¯

 

[ahjteam]

So how do you guys (well, those who ARE using synths ) go about when you design your sounds?

I usually only dial that kinda sounds that will be more as a harmonic layers to give the song some mass or vibe, not leads or such, I let the keyboard players to do it themselves and I usually have a certain kinda sound in my mind before I add them. I go thru the presets and if there is one that is even somewhere near what I am looking for, then I start tweaking from there, do the midi and print the results, then to save cpu I freeze the track or if not available, I save the setup to a file and remove the track (if using eg. PT LE or something else with limited track count)

 

[vespiz]

I go thru the presets and if there is one that is even somewhere near what I am looking for, then I start tweaking from there, do the midi and print the results, then to save cpu I freeze the track or if not available, I save the setup to a file and remove the track (if using eg. PT LE or something else with limited track count)

Yeah, pretty much what he said. Modern synths come loaded with great sounds/presets so it really is just quicker to get a sound that's in the ball-park and tweak from there. But at the same time, it always feels a bit like cheating when using presets.

Layering stuff! Usually I have at least 2 string sounds going on, to fill the sound to my liking and from 2 different synths. Sometimes 2 very different sounds complement each other nicely.

I only record in mono if the synth output is in mono Even then I sometimes double the part. Mmm.. phat..

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

Well there are many many types of synth sounds so all of them cannot just be handled the same. There are pads, there are leads, there are percussive sounds, orchestral stuff, etc. And when using the vsti some of the sounds are mono and some of them are stereo. Imho there is not one answer for all the sounds out there.

So what type of sound is this topic about?

 

[Erkan]

So what type of sound is this topic about?

Well, anything you guys feel is interesting but for me, I'd say some type of... uhm well, the sound I had made was a pad-like sound with a percussive "pick" in the start. But I guess I'm mainly looking for advice on sounds that are supposed to "fill out" but still be heard through the guitars... a mix of pad and lead perhaps.

 

[JonWormwood]

Just tweak presets to hell.

 

[Erkan]

I want to remember you that you've started this thread all wrong man. You should have spelled:
H0W D0 M1X 5YNTHZ? ¯(°_o)/¯
or:
H0W D0 M4K3 50UNDZ? ¯(°_o)/¯
We can't avoid him anymore pal... seriously...
¯(°_o)/¯

Hahaha, oh of course... I started it the wrong way Well, I'll remember it for the next thread!

IMO BlackNeonBob, the dude from Toxic Grind Machine, is by far the best musician on this board when it comes to synths. He may help you.

Aaaah right, I hope he stops by and maybe has something to say! I remember his stuff yea, pretty damn sweet!

I usually only dial that kinda sounds that will be more as a harmonic layers to give the song some mass or vibe, not leads or such, I let the keyboard players to do it themselves and I usually have a certain kinda sound in my mind before I add them. I go thru the presets and if there is one that is even somewhere near what I am looking for, then I start tweaking from there, do the midi and print the results, then to save cpu I freeze the track or if not available, I save the setup to a file and remove the track (if using eg. PT LE or something else with limited track count)

Bah, unfortunately I don't have the luxury of real hardware synths or actual keyboardists. I'm limited to myself and my MIDI keyboard + Crystal or whatever free synth is good (not sure I wanna spend the big money on Absynth etc. just yet. Need to know how much of a use I'll have of synths in my music first).

But yea, I guess presets + tweaking is what most people do but I can't help but feeling I'm cheating when I use presets for .. well anything really. I'm almost even at the point where I don't even want to use other people's drum samples etc, even if they sound great and are free to use. Someone should put my ego down :| It's not that I think of myself high (lol, the opposite in fact!), it's just that I don't feel like it's my work when I've used presets or other people's samples, but if you stretch this far enough you could say I'm cheating by using a DAW that someone else has coded hahaha...

 

[vespiz]

Well, anything you guys feel is interesting but for me, I'd say some type of... uhm well, the sound I had made was a pad-like sound with a percussive "pick" in the start. But I guess I'm mainly looking for advice on sounds that are supposed to "fill out" but still be heard through the guitars... a mix of pad and lead perhaps.

Really difficult to say without hearing the context. Clips?

 

[Erkan]

Really difficult to say without hearing the context. Clips?

Yea I know, it's hard to describe.

I do have a clip actually....... but it's so embarrassing hahaha! In my head, it sounds good, but the actual sound right now is sooo cheesy... I'll upload it if you insist... soon...

 

[ahjteam]

I used this kinda pad sound in this song. The thing with that one is that you can actually hear it quite well, but only if you concentrate on it or listen to at some awkward place, otherwise you won't propably even notice it

 

[Erkan]

I used this kinda pad sound in this song. The thing with that one is that you can actually hear it quite well, but only if you concentrate on it or listen to at some awkward place, otherwise you won't propably even notice it

Hmm well you seem to have run it through an amp sim or something, so it melts together with the guitar tracks very well. I could hear it since I knew it was there, but otherwise it would probably have gone unnoticed since I would be thinking it's just a part of the guitar riff or something. Interesting anyways.

I have experimented with synths through amp sims etc, but I found the result to be pretty boring after a few times... every sound gets the same character

Man... Devin Townsend is one fucker when it comes to layering synths and orchestral stuff, and everything can be heard pretty clear even though there is a wall of guitars going on at the same time Pretty inspiring.

 

[Sweetnothing]

I use a bit of synths on my music...but what I do when different instruments collide with the synth is loop 8 measures ( the verse for example) and tweak away.
Sometimes just putting a square osc a octave up works, or maybe simplifiying the synth part ( so it cuts thru), automate distortion ( tiny amounts to make the part stand out)/volume/pan/sends...
Or just make a buss just for the synth sounds, and sidechain them ( using the guitars as key inputs, whatever)

Yes, a snippet would be great to focus on what you could do on it

 

[ahjteam]

No ampsims, the signal chain was:

some free Vibraphone vst (Vibraphone TS or something, pretty boring by itself)
TLs Saturated Driver (mainly as compressor and volumebooster)
Steinberg Cubase A (large room, 100 wet + 70 dry)
Mr. Mono (makes track mono, I used it to get rid of the stereo effect which was super disturbing)
E-Phonic LOFI (downscaler 100% 100%, filter 22% 100%, shaper 50% 5, wet/dry 50% and volume to taste)
EQ (highpass at 500hz, lowpass at 3000hz, 6dB boost at 1.3khz)

 

[Erkan]

No ampsims, the signal chain was:

some free Vibraphone vst (Vibraphone TS or something, pretty boring by itself)
TLs Saturated Driver (mainly as compressor and volumebooster)
Steinberg Cubase A (large room, 100 wet + 70 dry)
Mr. Mono (makes track mono, I used it to get rid of the stereo effect which was super disturbing)
E-Phonic LOFI (downscaler 100% 100%, filter 22% 100%, shaper 50% 5, wet/dry 50% and volume to taste)
EQ (highpass at 500hz, lowpass at 3000hz, 6dB boost at 1.3khz)

Oh cool! Sounded like it was through an amp sim or something

 

[ahjteam]

Oh cool! Sounded like it was through an amp sim or something

Well if you think about what is in the chain, it has pretty much all the elements that as a whole make a guitar amplifier: A stereo turned into mono signal going thru an overdrive, preamplifier, "cabinet" and EQ

 

[ESP21]

Has anyone got any suggestions for the best synths out there for like Ambient/Orchestral/Choir stuff?
Im finding it hard trying to find decent presets for this kinda stuff and ones where you can build your own layers, everything I seem to use sounds very typical sounding

 

[Erkan]

Well if you think about what is in the chain, it has pretty much all the elements that as a whole make a guitar amplifier: A stereo turned into mono signal going thru an overdrive, preamplifier, "cabinet" and EQ

You speak the truth! Maybe that's why it sounds like that... haha.

I know it's hard to give concrete tips about anything in audio, so I understand it's a bit tricky to give me tips etc, so tell ya what... I'm gonna try a little bit more with this synth and I'll post a clip in a day or two instead of posting it as it is now... it's quite embarrassing Think It'll be a bit easier when I'm atleast satisfied with the sound, so "all" "we" gotta do is fit it in!