Disappointing SX Setlists...

Keep in mind that DT can play 3 hours a night because they throw lighter, easier-to-play-physically material (like ballads) in the set regularly. Symphony X is a more intense band, and their music seems a little bit more intense to play.
 
WhoFooldU said:
Would you like some cheese for your whine?

I asked BastrdDrmr a question, I'm sure I'll get an answer.

but since you want to take it there, I'll go there....Andy Deluca, yup, know the name. For those of you who do not know, Andy played bass for the band when they toured in support of Twilight in Olympus. Thank you rocky for mentioning something and not putting it into proper context for some of the newer fans who were not around at the time. So Andy's perspective is from one tour and one tour only. Oh and did you mention it was basically the first tour, nope, didn't see that. Obviously the band should be switching things up nightly in your most humble opinion even when touring for the first time. Bah, whatever, they got out and toured and showed that they were a real band and could actually play. They proved that it wasn't just some studio project nor studio magic. They could indeed play, and play well.

now back to touring matters at hand...I've seen my fair share of concerts as well. And let's add some perspecitve to the band's touring. My apologies to anyone in Europe at this point in time, I'm going to focus on North American concerts. How many shows did they play in North America in support of the V album? Anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller...they played 9 shows. 9 frickin shows. Setlists consisted of a sizeable portion of the "V" album (most of the time it was Prelude through Death of Balance). What a surprise, makes sense after all to play stuff you are out in support of. Sprinkle in various other songs Dressed to Kill, Divine Wings of Tragedy, The Edge of Forever, Out of the Ashes, Through the Looking Glass, Smoke and Mirrors, Church of the Machine, Sea of Lies, Of Sins and Shadows, The Accolade, and The Eyes of Medusa and I think you have the makings of a very fine sampling of Symphony X's further back catalog.

So then comes the Odyssey...

The first chance Symphony X gets to tour in support of this in the States is opening for Blind Guardian. A support slot of 45 minutes. Room for roughly 7 songs on an average night. Kind of sucks, but they played a cross section of tunes to attempt to cover the bases. Since they are out supporting the Odyssey, I guess they should play a couple songs from that. Anyone notice a logical trend there? Anyway, so what did the fans get for that tour....Inferno, Wicked, King of Terrors, Incantations of the Apprentice, Evolution, Sea of Lies, Church of the Machine, Smoke and Mirrors, Of Sins and Shadows, and Egypt/Death of Balance. I know I listed more than 7 songs, but you know what, the band was rotating songs in and out of the set during the tour. Not too bad for a month of touring (about 20 dates if you really must know).

next up in the US show department for the Odyssey tour, 2 support dates for Halfor in New York. night one set list: Inferno, Wicked, Sea of Lies, Awakenings, Prelude, Evolution, Egpyt, Death of Balance, King of Terrors, and Of SIns and Shadows. Night two set list: Inferno, Wicked, Evolution, Communion and the Orcale, King of Terrors, Smoke and Mirrors, Church of the Machine, Imperial March from Star Wars, Sea of Lies, and Of Sins and Shadows. Go ahead and compare the two shows, were there enough of a difference for back to back nights?? Nah, probably not for SOME people.

Next US dates (GASP!) 2 weeks of headlining shows with Seven Witches as support. Oh wow, Finally they can have a little more time to play!! about 10 shows and they consisted of a mixture of what they were going for the previous support slots with Blind Guardian and Halford. A set list may have gone something like this: Inferno, Wicked, King of Terrors, Church of the Machine, Accolade/Accolade II (the hybrid version that last about 14 minutes or more), Evolution, Awakenings, Egypt, Communion and the Oracle, Sea of Lies, Out of the Ashes, Smoke and Mirrors, and Of Sins and Shadows. Still not bad set list. For those of you following along, how many headlinging shows have I menitoned in the US?? Just over 20 is the correct answer. But hey, you guys aren't changing up your set lists enough to satify us long time fans.

Then it was off to Europe to kick ass opening for Stratovarius. About another 25 shows doing a support slot. mid MArch 2003 - late April 2003

next show: ProgPower 4 - Atlanta. Sept 2003.
Setlist: Inferno, Wicked, evolution, Communion and the Oracle, King of Terrors, Out of the Ashes, Accolade/Accolade II, Smoke and Mirrors, Sea of Lies, Of Sins and Shadows, and some short number called "The Odyssey" for the encore.

Next dates consist of one month of headlining slots from mid November to Mid Decemeber 2003. Fairly similar setlists throughout this part of the tour. Still playing the odyssey as the encore. And at the end of this, it's a total of 50 or so headlining dates spread over a period of 3 years. but hey, you guys haven't changed up the setlist enough of SOME people, throw them a bone, ok.

2004 --- 10 support dates opening for Queensryche, think they will very the setlist as they are again playing to a new crowd with 45 minute sets? nah, not likely.

2005 --- Support dates for Gigantour (about 40 shows in 50 days). Time of set: a well documented 30 minutes. Setlist on a good night consists of a bout 5 songs: Inferno, Wicked, Evolution, Sea of Lies, and Of Sins and Shadows. New faces, more exposure, playing to more people who don't know who this band truly is. Guess we should play all the old numbers for the die hard in the front row because 500 other people have never seen them.

There you have it...more documentation about the band's history than most people wanted to know. Until this band is doing headlining shows on their own consistently, expect more of the fine mix that you have read of in this post. When they have control over their own shows, better bookings, etc, then let's ask them to change it up a bit more.

And that is my well researched 2 cents.
Glenn

p.s. This post took far too much time to write!! Thanks for reading it if you did.


not my problem you're on the payroll buddy!!! im looking for a more unbiased opinion, which clearly you dont represent. true you bring facts to the table, im not argueing that. but frankly, for those of you whom i didnt accomodate by contexting a one *andy deluca* i am sorry, you are probably the ones in support of the repeating setlists. id also like to get something else straight: i certainly DO respect WhoFooldU's opinions and information, as well as the fact that he took time to explain what should be common knowledge. but bottom line is that this forum exists for opinions, and i have mine in regards to SX setlists...if we as the fans dont push for the absolute best, then we should expect subpar EVERYTHING!!!! in regards to you referencing TEOF, how many times was it played on that particular tour? cuz i didnt catch it? just curious because of the amount of time SX incorporates it into their marketing and whatnot...once again, certainly not trying to compromise the integrity of the band, just hoping to keep the fire under their asses lit at ALL TIMES!!!!
 
Glenn,
Your research was nice but I already knew what the setlists were for every leg of the Odyssey tours. I saw Symphony X all 5 times on the Odyssey tour, btw.

I'm not particularly interested in where Symphony X decided to play different songs, but I can tell you that both times they "headlined" in Detroit the venue decided to screw them and cut off a large part of the set. Still... both times they had around an hour. This still provided a great opportunity to play at least a few different songs. Instead... at the 1st Detroit headline show they dropped Accolade 1&2, Out of the Ashes, Egypt/Death of Balance, Imperial March, and Church of the Machine in favor of the songs that I will most likely hear at every single symphony X show until the day I die (or they die). It is highly unlikely that some of the songs they dropped will be played again anytime soon... if ever again. At the second "headline" show they dropped Accolade 2, Of Sins and Shadows, and Smoke and Mirrors.... and while I'm not entirely thrilled that Smoke and Mirrors and OSaS were dropped I had already seen each song 3 times at that point. But Accolade 2 will probably not see the light of day for awhile... oh well.

Anyway, any band that has a large amount of material to pull from should be able to vary their setlists (I'm not saying on a night to night basis, but at least on a tour to tour basis). An important thing for any established band to do (in my opinion) is be able to have an element of suprise in your live show. I didn't look at the setlists ahead of time for the past couple shows but I didn't need to because I already knew that Symphony X would bust out the same old stuff. It's not like when I saw Dream Theater bust out Under a Glass Moon or Metallica busting out Disposable Heros and I was totally pumped up by it. These shows hold great memories for me because I went to them expecting one thing and was totally thrilled when I received the unexpected. Symphony X is excellent at what they do when they perform live but they could be so much better. I can only imagine how awesome it would've been to see them bust out the Imperial March. How is that for an element of suprise? NO ONE anticipated something like that. Symphony X shouldn't necessarily start playing random themes at their shows but they should keep people on their toes. End of rant.
 
This is a circle of arguments which won't go anywhere, anyway I was wondering where are the live pictures from the website? I remember seeing some pics of TiO tour and andy deluca too.
 
I agree with what Glenn says. Gigantour (and pretty much any slot under 45 minutes) is an excellent opportunity for Symphony X to gain new fans. Whether you like it or not, every band is a business. With a half-hour time slot in a huge metal festival, they are going to play their most accessible material. Any band with any intelligence would do the same. I understand that most of us die-hard fans are sick of hearing "Wicked" and "Inferno" night after night -- but think about someone hearing them for the first time at Gigantour (or one of their previous opening slots). Maybe they've never even heard any progressive metal before. Say they like it enough to buy several Symphony X albums and start attending more of their shows. It's good marketing, and if you guys are the huge fans you claim to be, you should be thrilled that the band is getting this much attention.

To further my point, I remember when I saw them opening for Queensryche a while back. I knew it would be more of the same songs ("Inferno" again!?) A huge Queensryche fan beside me asked me what they sounded like, and I told him "it's kinda like neo-classical metal." He didn't like that description, but after "Inferno," he couldn't stop saying how awesome they were. He purchased The Odyssey that night, and I'm sure he's even a bigger fan now.

After meeting the band on numerous occassions, I can easily say that they are all wonderful people, and truly deserve all the praise they can get. I'll bet you that the next time Symphony X goes out on a headlining tour (which probably won't happen until after the new album), they'll throw in some older stuff and ignore many of the songs from The Odyssey.

Just understand that not everyone is going to hear everything they want to hear every night. Think about a Dream Theater fan who loves the more atmospheric progressive stuff, but the band opens with a sonic assault of "The Glass Prison," "This Dying Soul," and "Honor Thy Father." Or think of a metal head who wants to hear these heavier songs, but gets 'fluffy-assers' like "Hollow Years" and "Solitary Shell" instead. No band can please all their fans all the time.
 
rockyracoon said:
not my problem you're on the payroll buddy!!! im looking for a more unbiased opinion, which clearly you dont represent. true you bring facts to the table, im not argueing that. but frankly, for those of you whom i didnt accomodate by contexting a one *andy deluca* i am sorry, you are probably the ones in support of the repeating setlists. id also like to get something else straight: i certainly DO respect WhoFooldU's opinions and information, as well as the fact that he took time to explain what should be common knowledge. but bottom line is that this forum exists for opinions, and i have mine in regards to SX setlists...if we as the fans dont push for the absolute best, then we should expect subpar EVERYTHING!!!! in regards to you referencing TEOF, how many times was it played on that particular tour? cuz i didnt catch it? just curious because of the amount of time SX incorporates it into their marketing and whatnot...once again, certainly not trying to compromise the integrity of the band, just hoping to keep the fire under their asses lit at ALL TIMES!!!!

paid or unpaid, I presented the information and I'll leave it for anyone else to form their own opinion. I provided information based on my show experiences, as you have done so. In that respect, I have as much weight in my arguement as you do. So far, so good, so what....

Then again, you know what they say about opionions....

I guess the thing that we all have to live with, is that we aren't in the band. The band has their own vision. They will do things as they see fit.

I'll take touring as a priority any day.

oh and as to The Edge of Forever. The answer is one. Uno. Ein. 1. They played it 1 time at ProgPower 2 in Atlanta. They also went so far as to dedicate it to the members of the band's mailing list who were in attendance at the show. ProgPower 2 was the final date of all North American "V" tour dates.

Also, I'll take a stab at setting the record straight regading TEOF. TEOF was taken as the name of the website, not by the band, but by a fan who created the site. The mailing list carried on that name as a way to reference back to the website. And then there was the live cd that almost wasn't, originally to be called "Live In Europe", the title was changed as a nod to the core of fans on a mailing list of the same name. Again, I'll leave for anyone else to form their own opinion about it.
 
yeah i think it's wise for them at Gigantour to play the heavier songs which are more likely to attact new fans. especially if a Gigantour DVD comes out it's a great opportunity to increase their fanbase.
 
meisteh said:
yeah i think it's wise for them at Gigantour to play the heavier songs which are more likely to attact new fans. especially if a Gigantour DVD comes out it's a great opportunity to increase their fanbase.


a SX dvd is long overdue. i wish they'd have done one with the release of their live album...
 
WhoFooldU said:
I'll take touring as a priority any day.

QUOTE]


agreed...i can wait a little longer for a new album. sooner would be better, but id rather see a tour. if SX never stops touring, then i would hope the odds will go up as far as hearing some deeper cuts. even they must get sick of playing certain songs day in, day out.
 
Doesn't bother me that Sym X happens to repeat some songs on their tours. As far as I see it, being a fairly new fan, I can remember all the lyrics and not look like too much of a fool if I forget lyrics while singing/yelling along. Sure, new shit would be great but for the amont of times they tour, I'll take what I can get.
 
Well, I guess the only people who could give you an answer there would be Jax or Glenn. Or, go to Gigantour and bother the band at the FYE tent. But, I doubt you'd accept any answer given to you.
 
WhoFooldU said:
Perhaps because it was a bonus track that not many people have heard. Secondly, it doesn't really fit the overall vibe of the Odyssey.


it totally fits the vibe...lyrically and musically. and why havent people heard this material? its been out there for quite a while. and for as into SX as some people on this forum claim to be, ive really gotta wonder sometimes...
 
rockyracoon said:
it totally fits the vibe...lyrically and musically.
I don't think it fits the vibe - The Odyssey is for the most part heavy, and even the lighter parts are not as upbeat as Frontiers. Lyrically it's completely different - it's about space travel while most of the rest of The Odyssey seems to be set in the various times long since past. The track The Odyssey is about returning home, while Frontiers is about leaving and exploring.

rockyracoon said:
and why havent people heard this material? its been out there for quite a while.
Perhaps because it's on the Japanese release and very few people are likely to own that?

rockyracoon said:
and for as into SX as some people on this forum claim to be, ive really gotta wonder sometimes...
Who goes around claiming they are really "into Symphony X"? There's no requirement for being a fan other than enjoying listening to their music - you don't have to name your kids "Divine", "Wings", "of" and "Tragedy" to be a fan. I thought SymX was above that whole "trve" concept of fans.

I like Symphony X a lot, however I respect the decisions they make for example their choice of setlist. Being outspoken on the subject doesn't make you an uber-fan.
 
kazahana said:
Who goes around claiming they are really "into Symphony X"? There's no requirement for being a fan other than enjoying listening to their music - you don't have to name your kids "Divine", "Wings", "of" and "Tragedy" to be a fan. I thought SymX was above that whole "trve" concept of fans.QUOTE]


I go around claiming to be really into SX. I love their entire catalog, and go figure, I'd like to see it all live. And if you're not familiar with some of their material, then maybe you arent as big a fan as others. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, just that there are varying degrees of being a fan, and how much you're into them. I feel that I am a big SX fan, and because of that would love to see them expand on their current setlists. This doesnt mean I didnt enjoy the 2 Gigantour shows I recently saw immensely, simply that I think in the near future, hopefully their next tour, SX decides to touch on some undertoured material for those of us who've listened faithfully since the beginning. I dont think thats too much to ask.