Do most of you guys even record drums?

[Nick M]

I am just sort of noticing that it seems so many of you use Superior Drummer or slate drums. Lots of programmers on here. I see many offer recording studios services. If you have a recording studio, why on earth would you program drums? (if you do not have a studio I get it) I can understand triggering these sounds to enhance what you recorded, but it seems quite a few just program anyway? Is it because your rooms are lacking for drum tracking? Is it that your drum tracking abilities are lacking? Is it the bands trying to play parts that they can't play.

Really, What gives?

I keep hearing these super fake programmed drums(including cymbals!) and it all sounds the same.uke:

 

[K Odell]

Well not everyone can afford the mics and what not it takes to track live drums straight out the gate. Nor can everyone always accomodate a live drummer. People have to start some where. I would say this would be more of a concern if they never try to move on from that, but even still who cares.

 

[Morgan C]

Damn. It's kinda sad isn't it? I'd like to separate myself from the POD/Slate crowd but I guess I pretty much am one of them. For me it's because I don't see pursuing this as a full-blown career as a valid option with the industry in the shape it's in, so its more a hobby/2nd job for me. As such, I don't have much to spend on nice mics or a decent drum room, so most drum trackings I've done have been more trouble than they've been worth, and haven't sounded THAT great in the end anyway, even with samples. On top of that, I often work from bands from overseas, just mixing, and then I have to work with what I'm given. Sometimes it's real drums, sometimes not.

 

[jimwilbourne]

I have a studio. And I program often.
So here it is:

For me, I often end up programing because either the drummer has god awful equipment or a band wants to record but doesn't have the budget to spend the time I need them to spend. And drums is one of the most time consuming elements for me. So naturally, it's the element that I'm mostly likely to give up to the least natural approach.

Unfortunately, I'm not regularly recording projects that give me the chance to put my drum tracking into practice. And I'm sure many on this forum experience the same issue.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Recording real drum tracks require real talent (drummer, engineer, tuning) and decent room/gear. I have nothing against blending samples to shape the sound of a real drum kit. But the programmed 100% on the grid, sampled drums are stale and boring. Nothing worse than programmed snare hits placed exactly in time, one after another.

 

[Nick M]

Ok I get it. It makes perfect sense for the project studio/hobby studios. I made some assumptions that these were studios with the proper tools and rooms.

 

[Nick M]

Recording real drum tracks require real talent (drummer, engineer, tuning) and decent room/gear. I have nothing against blending samples to shape the sound of a real drum kit. But the programmed 100% on the grid, sampled drums are stale and boring. Nothing worse than programmed snare hits placed exactly in time, one after another.

Agreed

 

[Skyweaver]

I always prefer to work with live drums, but its not always possible for a number of reasons

Cost - Drummers often charge a band $100 per song to record ($1000 for 10 tune album)
- Studio additional 3 - 4 days of studio time to record a drummer - anywhere from $2000 - $5000
- Drum editing additional 5 days again $100 per song another $1000

Availability - Drummers who can play the tunes aren't always available to learn the songs and do a decent job or take the time to interpret what the band is trying to do, often the drums are programed as part of preproduction and end up staying that way.

I've had good experiences with drummers and really shit experiences where I couldn't even use the material recorded.

So if there is a decent sounding, cost effective way of getting music out there, then take it....I honestly wish there were more drummers, but they seem to get fewer in numbers and fewer in quality ever year.

 

[Nick M]

I always thought programming sounded like a ton of work. It has to be close to the time needed(if not more) in tracking and editing drums. If you can get that done quicker than tracking and editing a real performance(not likely- unless the band just sucks), I guess you could charge less. - (still pales to the real thing) What do these drummers say to the idea of not having to even play on the songs? Move over singers, looks like the drummers have the easiest job in the band now.

 

[Skyweaver]

Mendel did a tutorial on drum programming, its super fast - the only area I have difficulties is the fills in drum programming, some of the guys on this board are so good at it, it can be hard to tell - each to their own, at the end of the day its all about the song

 

[Nick M]

I always prefer to work with live drums, but its not always possible for a number of reasons

Cost - Drummers often charge a band $100 per song to record ($1000 for 10 tune album)
- Studio additional 3 - 4 days of studio time to record a drummer - anywhere from $2000 - $5000
- Drum editing additional 5 days again $100 per song another $1000

Availability - Drummers who can play the tunes aren't always available to learn the songs and do a decent job or take the time to interpret what the band is trying to do, often the drums are programed as part of preproduction and end up staying that way.

I've had good experiences with drummers and really shit experiences where I couldn't even use the material recorded.

So if there is a decent sounding, cost effective way of getting music out there, then take it....I honestly wish there were more drummers, but they seem to get fewer in numbers and fewer in quality ever year.

This is not a band situation. This would be your own songs without a band then?

Bands tend to have their own drummer. If the drummer sucks, he does not need to be recording. Band should get someone who can play their songs or change parts to accommodate the dead weight.

 

[Skyweaver]

thanks for the tips on how bands work...insightful

 

[K Odell]

This is not a band situation. This would be your own songs without a band then?

Bands tend to have their own drummer. If the drummer sucks, he does not need to be recording. Band should get someone who can play their songs or change parts to accommodate the dead weight.

Negative, a band should never compromise their music to support their "dead weight". Been there, done that. Program if need be I say. Whatever gets the project there and sounds the best for the situation.

 

[AdamWathan]

This forum is mostly people screwing around with S2.0 and Podfarm unfortunately. People with microphones are in the minority here, people with enough to record a drumkit even less.

 

[if6was9]

I've never done a project with programmed drums. Right from the get go I got the gear needed to start tracking drums. I'm a live engineer too so stuff like decent close mics and stands/cables were something I was always going to have to get myself anyways and I never even thought about not needing them.

I also find it strange to see so many people going the programmed route. In my world if a band doesn't have a drummer then they aren't in a position to record. Obviously there's session guys and people do that with solo records but I've never dealt with that over the last 2-3 years. For alot of the bands I work with, why record if you can't gig. That said even in my area there's guys starting up who just program/ edit/ totally sample replace the kit. They often don't even consider trying to get the best out of it when tracking. It's just t bone mics/triggers for sample replacing if they bother recording at all. I find it weird. When I record I go for the best natural sound out of the kit and not rely on samples. Sure I use samples but only when needed.

In my mind someone advertising a studio to record bands should have the capability to record drums.

 

[jipchen]

All upcoming projects I'm booked for include real drums. I did only programmed drums until now because I didn't have the room, gear and know-how.
Two of those points are no problem anymore Seriously, I like recording (esp. miking) drums - even if the tracking is a PITA most times.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Setting up microphones for a drum kit tracking is the best part of audio engineering in my opinion, so much fun

 

[Charles J]

Setting up microphones for a drum kit tracking is the best part of audio engineering in my opinion, so much fun

+1!!!!!!

 

[Nick M]

Setting up microphones for a drum kit tracking is the best part of audio engineering in my opinion, so much fun

Bingo

 

[Nick M]

I also find it strange to see so many people going the programmed route. In my world if a band doesn't have a drummer then they aren't in a position to record. Obviously there's session guys and people do that with solo records but I've never dealt with that over the last 2-3 years. For alot of the bands I work with, why record if you can't gig. That said even in my area there's guys starting up who just program/ edit/ totally sample replace the kit. They often don't even consider trying to get the best out of it when tracking. It's just t bone mics/triggers for sample replacing if they bother recording at all. I find it weird. When I record I go for the best natural sound out of the kit and not rely on samples. Sure I use samples but only when needed.

In my mind someone advertising a studio to record bands should have the capability to record drums.

This is exactly what I am talking about.