Do you think the big four of thrash are the height of quality in the genre?

[Bathoryswans]

I know this is debated a lot and I often hear many different opinions on it such as no they are just the most popular all real thrashers know there are better thrash bands or ofcourse they are the best! That's why they are the big four because everyone knows they are the best! Either way I thought it would be a worthwhile topic to make though I could be wrong I might just start bloody war where innocent lives get taken and children lose there parents and end up getting kicked out of my new favorite forum (The horror..The horror!) So at the risk of all that I'm going to put down my input and I think no not at all. My reason for that is because in my opinion....

Metal Church > Metallica
Sodom > Megadeth
Dark angel > Slayer
D.R.I > Anthrax

It is also in my professional opinion that...

Overkill > Metallica
Exodus > Megadeth
Kreator > Slayer
Voivod > Anthrax

And those are my thoughts on the matter remember. Seriously though lets avoid fighting and have a serious discussion on this. Lets make an intelligent debate and not a petty flame war. With that said I now as you the ultimate question...

Was Apocalypse Now better than the Godfather?

 

[poundingmetal74]

Other than Voivod > Anthrax, I disagree with every choice (personally). Also, I think Testament ought to be included, especially given that they are among the most successful thrash bands. In my personal Top 4, I'd throw them in with Metallica, Slayer and Megadeth.

 

[mdmatt4ever]

in the 80's/early 90's yes those 4 bands were the top quality of thrash with a handfull of others fighting for a spot. imo though as a career overkill, testament, exodus and flotsam and jetsam have been more consistant than most of the big 4

 

[Bathoryswans]

Other than Voivod > Anthrax, I disagree with every choice (personally). Also, I think Testament ought to be included, especially given that they are among the most successful thrash bands. In my personal Top 4, I'd throw them in with Metallica, Slayer and Megadeth.

I just used random bands I thought made sense. I like Testament but they had some consistency problems but I do love me some legacy.

 

[Bathoryswans]

in the 80's/early 90's yes those 4 bands were the top quality of thrash with a handfull of others fighting for a spot. imo though as a career overkill, testament, exodus and flotsam and jetsam have been more consistant than most of the big 4

You know I generally don't care for bands who are inconsistent maybe that's why I never cared for the big 4. Well that and the fact I hated Kill em all, And Justice for all, and South of Heaven. Classics those are not in my eyes.

Also isn't it generally agreed among thrashers that Darkness Descends was an all out better album than Reign in Blood? It was faster, more brutal, and catchier it seems most people agree on that maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Exodus Prime]

As much as I love all four of the 'big 4', Exodus should've been in that group somehow. They were robbed. Bonded by Blood wipes the floor with Kill em All and Fistful of Metal as a debut.
Also, I think Testaments reputation has been on the rise since the Gathering and I'd say they seem bigger than Anthrax these days. No soap opera of changing singers either. I used to love the Thrax, but as solid an album as Worship Music is, it's not half as good a 'comeback' album as Tempo of the Damned or Formation of Damnation. Those two albums made thrash metal relevant again in the 00's.

 

[Wyvern]

The famous Big Four to me is crap. Big in sells maybe but as thrash, except for maybe Slayer (which I dislike) I never consider the other three REALLY thrash.

Testament is a better thrash (textbook) band that any of those. And from a technical standpoint Coroner, Toxik, Anacrusis, Forté, Slammer, Deathrow (third album) kick big 4 ass any given day.

 

[mdmatt4ever]

The famous Big Four to me is crap. Big in sells maybe but as thrash, except for maybe Slayer (which I dislike) I never consider the other three REALLY thrash.

Testament is a better thrash (textbook) band that any of those. And from a technical standpoint Coroner, Toxik, Anacrusis, Forté, Slammer, Deathrow (third album) kick big 4 ass any given day.

almost every musical movement has a big 4. it just refers to the most successful bands of that movement. doesn't always mean the best.

british invasion- the beatles, the rolling stones, the who, the kinks

grunge- soundgarden, alice in chains, nirvana, pearl jam

hair metal- bon jovi, motley crue, poison, def leppard

outlaw country- willie nelson, waylon jennings, johnny cash, kris kristofferson

we could do this all day with most genre's of music

 

[Bathoryswans]

The famous Big Four to me is crap. Big in sells maybe but as thrash, except for maybe Slayer (which I dislike) I never consider the other three REALLY thrash.

Testament is a better thrash (textbook) band that any of those. And from a technical standpoint Coroner, Toxik, Anacrusis, Forté, Slammer, Deathrow (third album) kick big 4 ass any given day.

Deathrows third album is enough to beat Slayer, Metallica, Anthrax, and Megadeth's entire discography. Deception ignored is always a treat to listen to and I have always consistently enjoyed it.

 

[Bathoryswans]

almost every musical movement has a big 4. it just refers to the most successful bands of that movement. doesn't always mean the best.

british invasion- the beatles, the rolling stones, the who, the kinks

grunge- soundgarden, alice in chains, nirvana, pearl jam

hair metal- bon jovi, motley crue, poison, def leppard

outlaw country- willie nelson, waylon jennings, johnny cash, kris kristofferson

we could do this all day with most genre's of music

Me and you may agree on this but if you read the above posts you'll see some people really think the big 4 are the best. I don't know how I mean I listen to a ton of thrash but I don't really enjoy much from the big four. South of heaven is one of the worst thrash albums ever.

 

[wdiv]

"Big" simply implies those that had the most fame, success, influence, etc -- can't really debate that. "Best" is subjective to the individual listener, so everyone will probably come up with their own unique list of what's best.

 

[Wyvern]

Deathrows third album is enough to beat Slayer, Metallica, Anthrax, and Megadeth's entire discography. Deception ignored is always a treat to listen to and I have always consistently enjoyed it.

Basically agree. A lot of people like thrash only for the aggressiveness, but when it come to technicality is one of the most underrated subgenres often overlooked, Which is very sad for me as there are brilliant musicians which never deserved the due recognition, sometimes because "oh there's the big four" mentality

BTW, if you want also check this tread http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/old-school/451869-m-thrash-metal-discussion-m.html

 

[Bathoryswans]

Basically agree. A lot of people like thrash only for the aggressiveness, but when it come to technicality is one of the most underrated subgenres often overlooked, Which is very sad for me as there are brilliant musicians which never deserved the due recognition, sometimes because "oh there's the big four" mentality

BTW, if you want also check this tread http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/old-school/451869-m-thrash-metal-discussion-m.html

Oh agreed those technical bands were amazing. Coroner, Watchtower, Deathrow, Toxik, and perhaps the most underrated one imo Mekong Delta all made some truly amazing stuff.

Thanks for the link to the thread though with the use of the metal archives I have scanned a large portion of the 80s thrash scene that is assuming its generally correct on what's thrash. I've never been good at pinpointing genres too well but I found some good underrated albums by bands called Blackkout, Ayas, Scarecrow(ger), Black Shepherd, and Bezerker (Not to be confused with that industrial death metal band.)

 

[End of Glory]

Testament should be in the big 4. Instead of Megadeth for example.

 

[Wyvern]

Oh agreed those technical bands were amazing. Coroner, Watchtower, Deathrow, Toxik, and perhaps the most underrated one imo Mekong Delta all made some truly amazing stuff.

I hadn't took the time yet to check Watchtower through, even if I'm well aware of Ron Jarzombek ability in Spastik Ink.

And damn me by forgetting Mekong Delta

Blackkout, Ayas, Scarecrow(ger), Black Shepherd, and Bezerker (Not to be confused with that industrial death metal band.)

Never heard of any of those. So much music so little time.

 

[Bathoryswans]

I hadn't took the time yet to check Watchtower through, even if I'm well aware of Ron Jarzombek ability in Spastik Ink.

And damn me by forgetting Mekong Delta



Never heard of any of those. So much music so little time.

Watchtowers first album is great, whole album is gold. Poor Mekong delta just doesn't get their fair share of popularity even as an underground act but they are one of the most consistent bands in the genre.

I reccomend listening to all those albums if you get a chance I can't guarantee all those fit the definition of thrash or that you'll like em as much as I did but they are all definitely worth giving a try. Oh and I met Bezerker members on YouTube as well as Hydra Vein members. Their some good folks.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Classic Metallica easily had some of the most creative and influential song-writing in all of metal, and as much as I love the best Metal Church and Overkill albums, neither can match Metallica in terms of innovation and highest-highs. The "big 4" on a whole does get a lot of undue praise, but the upper-second-tier bands are even more overrated, a good portion of them having admittedly some quality material but overall too obsessed with coattail-riding Metallica, Slayer, and Exodus. Kreator went to shit pretty rapidly after Pleasure to Kill, with just a few positive bumps, Sodom beyond their proto-black metal stuff is extremely generic, and even Overkill has so much forgettable stuff in their discography. You have to go past the major-label second-tier bands to find ones with a vision to rival Metallica and Slayer again (good mention on Watchtower, for one example).

I've never heard of Ayas, btw. Will check them out.

 

[mdmatt4ever]

wasn't the singer for watchtower the same guy on dangerous toys?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

On Energetic Disassembly, yes.

 

[Bathoryswans]

Classic Metallica easily had some of the most creative and influential song-writing in all of metal, and as much as I love the best Metal Church and Overkill albums, neither can match Metallica in terms of innovation and highest-highs. The "big 4" on a whole does get a lot of undue praise, but the upper-second-tier bands are even more overrated, a good portion of them having admittedly some quality material but overall too obsessed with coattail-riding Metallica, Slayer, and Exodus. Kreator went to shit pretty rapidly after Pleasure to Kill, with just a few positive bumps, Sodom beyond their proto-black metal stuff is extremely generic, and even Overkill has so much forgettable stuff in their discography. You have to go past the major-label second-tier bands to find ones with a vision to rival Metallica and Slayer again (good mention on Watchtower, for one example).

I've never heard of Ayas, btw. Will check them out.

I so heavily disagree dude you don't even know. Kill em all is a very forgettable album, and And justice for all is a boring piece of crap. The only two Metallica albums I like are RTL and to a lesser extent MOP. That said Blessing in Disguise and Hanging in the balance are far better and more creative albums. How did Kreator get bad after PTK? Terrible Certainty and Coma of souls are both brilliant far better and interesting any Slayer album at least. I much prefer The Years of Decay by Overkill over any Metallica album its simply more enjoyable even if you try to suggest Elimination ripped off Master of puppets.


You know what I hate most about Metallica? The vocals. James has a very obnoxious and uninteresting voice. It doesn't excite me it just annoys me especially on songs like Shortest straw. He does not have a thrash voice he has what is the defining voice of generic 90s rock.

That's all my opinion at least I just said it like its fact. I've listened to a lot of thrash in my time though so I'm not some ignorant fool just bashing on a popular band but Metallica is one of the most unenjoyably bands bands in the genre.