Do you think the big four of thrash are the height of quality in the genre?

Bathoryswans said:
I so heavily disagree dude you don't even know. Kill em all is a very forgettable album, and And justice for all is a boring piece of crap.
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I ultra so heavily disagree on your disagreement :tickled:.

KEA is a fantastic album, with a lot of NWOBHM inluence filled with great songs like 'Motorbreath' , 'Whiplash', 'Seek And Destroy', and more.

AJFA was the last decent Metallica album, and if it wasn't for 'One' and a couple more fillers it would have been a better one. But it is not boring or utter crap.

Bathoryswans said:
That said Blessing in Disguise and Hanging in the balance are far better and more creative albums.
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You forgot "The Human Factor". But even if I love Howe's era Metal Church I won't go and compare to classic Metallica. Both are great on their own. To say one is better than the other is always subjective to the listener.

Bathoryswans said:
You know what I hate most about Metallica? The vocals. James has a very obnoxious and uninteresting voice. It doesn't excite me it just annoys me especially on songs like Shortest straw. He does not have a thrash voice
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I don't know why people bash Metallica for that (I do for a 100 other reasons). Hetfield vocals were distinctive of the band and much more enjoyable that say Kreator or Sepultura at the time. Surely better than Mustaine if the eternal comparison between those bands may arose.

The thrash voice concept you are try to point escape my comprehension. From Ron Royce to James Hetfield, Dave Mustaine to Chuck Billy, Chris Astley to Mille Petrozza, David White to Joey Belladonna, Jimmy Hamilton to Bobby Ellsworth, there are a lot of ranges, pitches and singing styles. Thrash to me can be defined by rhythm, melody, guitar solos, speed, ferocity, technicality but not for vocals.
 
Testament > Metallica
Exodus > Megadeth
Kreator > Anthrax
And Slayer could be still a part of the Big 4. Otherwise the other only band I like and thinks earns really much respect is Havok but they're too new to fit there.

I don't know... Thrash isn't really a genre I pay too much attention to.
 
Bathoryswans said:
I so heavily disagree dude you don't even know. Kill em all is a very forgettable album, and And justice for all is a boring piece of crap. The only two Metallica albums I like are RTL and to a lesser extent MOP. That said Blessing in Disguise and Hanging in the balance are far better and more creative albums. How did Kreator get bad after PTK? Terrible Certainty and Coma of souls are both brilliant far better and interesting any Slayer album at least. I much prefer The Years of Decay by Overkill over any Metallica album its simply more enjoyable even if you try to suggest Elimination ripped off Master of puppets.


You know what I hate most about Metallica? The vocals. James has a very obnoxious and uninteresting voice. It doesn't excite me it just annoys me especially on songs like Shortest straw. He does not have a thrash voice he has what is the defining voice of generic 90s rock.

That's all my opinion at least I just said it like its fact. I've listened to a lot of thrash in my time though so I'm not some ignorant fool just bashing on a popular band but Metallica is one of the most unenjoyably bands bands in the genre.
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How is Kill Em All forgettable? At its time, no full-length sounded quite like it, and today there are so many anthems (especially the first four songs) so catchy and impossible to forget. I love Blessing in Disguise for its highlights, but there's nothing as innovative as Metallica's long instrumentals, Disposable Heroes, For Whom the Bells Toll, and others. Not to mention that it's not really a thrash album anyways.

Kreator turned to whiffle thrash very quickly after Pleasure to Kill, and Coma of Souls is a limp-wristed joke compared to anything Slayer had done at the time or earlier (not to mention blatantly influenced by those Metallica albums that you're not so crazy about). Even putting Elimination aside, many of the longer songs (Skullkrusher aside) clearly were going in the Metallica direction, abandoning their earlier punk energy and trad/power melodies for a more clinical straight-thrash sound. The fact that generic 90's rock bands have borrowed Hetfield's vocal style should not dissuade you from enjoying the original. You're clearly looking at them through the bias of the less-than-good bands they influenced.
 
I like the second wave better ('87-'91)
Forbidden (every member except the singer, has played in Testament, Slayer, Nevermore)
Heathen (Lee Altus is in Exodus as well)
Sacred Reich
Coroner (the most underrated metal band)
Flotsam and Jetsam (well, the early albums kill)
Death Angel
Annihilator
Kreator
Don't get me wrong, I love the Big 4 as well....in their heyday.
Megadeth, to me, seems the only one that still has the musical chops, though. After the P.O.T. album,I lost interest in Anthrax. Overkill, Testament, Voivod, Exodus are still crushing me. They have definitely got better with age. Especially Testament (after they got rid of that TERRIBLE drummer Clemente)and Overkill especially.
 
When the name was first coined they probably were the biggest 4 in terms of sales and popularity.

I have to go with Testament as the overall best thrash group apart from their short 'Low' period. Lots of good one-off albums out there too by many different groups.
 
I don't want to be "that guy", as I think most of the bands you listed were great, but Metallica's early albums are basically the foundation for most of the metal that we know today. (I've also never understood why Iron Maiden is up there with the "big four" of metal, but that's just me...)

If it means anything, Voivod admits they have been influenced by Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Motorhead http://www.allmusic.com/artist/voivod-mn0000186096/related

I think these bands predated those. I also think Black Sabbath/Ozzy, as well as late Zeppelin, were very influential in establishing this genre. But again, that's just me.

As they say, to each his own...
 
I would put a lot of bands over ANTHRAX: DARK ANGEL, EXODUS, OVERKILL, ARTILLERY, TESTAMENT come to mind.

The other 3 I think pretty much deserve to be where they are, although I may not listen to them as much as a lot of other lesser-known thrash acts.
 
HamburgerBoy said:
How is Kill Em All forgettable? At its time, no full-length sounded quite like it, and today there are so many anthems (especially the first four songs) so catchy and impossible to forget. I love Blessing in Disguise for its highlights, but there's nothing as innovative as Metallica's long instrumentals, Disposable Heroes, For Whom the Bells Toll, and others. Not to mention that it's not really a thrash album anyways.

Kreator turned to whiffle thrash very quickly after Pleasure to Kill, and Coma of Souls is a limp-wristed joke compared to anything Slayer had done at the time or earlier (not to mention blatantly influenced by those Metallica albums that you're not so crazy about). Even putting Elimination aside, many of the longer songs (Skullkrusher aside) clearly were going in the Metallica direction, abandoning their earlier punk energy and trad/power melodies for a more clinical straight-thrash sound. The fact that generic 90's rock bands have borrowed Hetfield's vocal style should not dissuade you from enjoying the original. You're clearly looking at them through the bias of the less-than-good bands they influenced.
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Kill em all may have been mind blowing for its time since it was so different but I don't enjoy it besides a few select tracks specifically Four horseman and Seek and Destroy but holy shit is Jump in the fire annoying as hell! Its not a very good album their is plenty of better raw thrash albums made since. Slayer made 3 good albums and went to shit with that piece of garbage South of Heaven which has awful vocals and boring songs. Coma of Souls wasn't brutal but it was catchy and enjoyable.


Look I don't care how influential Metallica may be considered my problem is they bore the shit out of me. Why should I praise a band who I can't enjoy no matter how hard I try? I end up listening to the band trying to see if maybe it will all just makes sense but I either get too bored or annoyed to the point I can't stand it. I don't care who James influenced with his voice I generally can't stand him especially on Shortest straw that was awful. Your argument seems to be based on influence but I don't care about that. I care about musicianship, quality, consistency, and the enjoyment I gain from listening to the music. I like a lot of the bands Metallica influenced maybe but that doesn't change the fact that Metallica isn't enjoyable. Their instrumentals aren't anything special I don't see the fuss over Orion at all.


Maybe I'll just never get it. You guys apparently enjoy this band I guess y'all see something I clearly don't. I'll just stick to Voivod who as far as I can tell kicks Metallicas ass in every way.
 
Wyvern said:
I ultra so heavily disagree on your disagreement :tickled:.

KEA is a fantastic album, with a lot of NWOBHM inluence filled with great songs like 'Motorbreath' , 'Whiplash', 'Seek And Destroy', and more.

AJFA was the last decent Metallica album, and if it wasn't for 'One' and a couple more fillers it would have been a better one. But it is not boring or utter crap.



You forgot "The Human Factor". But even if I love Howe's era Metal Church I won't go and compare to classic Metallica. Both are great on their own. To say one is better than the other is always subjective to the listener.



I don't know why people bash Metallica for that (I do for a 100 other reasons). Hetfield vocals were distinctive of the band and much more enjoyable that say Kreator or Sepultura at the time. Surely better than Mustaine if the eternal comparison between those bands may arose.

The thrash voice concept you are try to point escape my comprehension. From Ron Royce to James Hetfield, Dave Mustaine to Chuck Billy, Chris Astley to Mille Petrozza, David White to Joey Belladonna, Jimmy Hamilton to Bobby Ellsworth, there are a lot of ranges, pitches and singing styles. Thrash to me can be defined by rhythm, melody, guitar solos, speed, ferocity, technicality but not for vocals.
Click to expand...

Dude your supposed to be on my side. No I hate Kill em all and And justice for all I've given them enough chances to confirm I hate those albums. I don't like James's voice whether its meant for thrash or not but I simply find him obnoxious ofcourse Snake didn't have that good of a voice but Voivod made damn good use of him.
 
The big four are just the most popular thrash bands, but just because they are the most popular it doesn't mean they are the "best" thrash metal bands.

Metallica are not even playing thrash anymore. Their three first albums were awesome, but after that, their sound changed so much that most thrash fans do not recognise them as thrash metal anymore. (Top reason for that is that mustaine left the band).

Anthrax had also awesome albums (the first three), but their sound "softened" on stage of euphoria, and after that, they never came back to classic thrash metal. Also in my opinion, there is no Anthrax without Joey Belladona. (Lol I have a friend that always says "Anthrax died with Ian's hair" ;P)

Megadeth are definatelly among the best thrash metal bands. In my opinion the only band of big four that deserves to be that high. Almost all their albums are good AND thrash. Mustaine is definatelly one of the best guitarists ever, and without him thrash would not be the same. (He was a major influence for the genre)

Slayer.. hmm personally I do not like slayer, or at least not much as other thrash bands. Sure they have classic stuff such as angel of death and raining blood, but they are not as technical as other bands. Their sound had much more influence on death metal than thrash.

Other than megadeth I would put bands like Exodus, Kreator, Metal church, Vio-lence, Nuclear assault, DRI, Tankard, Testament, Sodom, (I still have lots in mind) over the rest of the "big four" anyday.

But in my opinion nothing can be compared to Overkill. 16 studio albums, 2 live albums, sooo many live performances over the 30+ years they are active and sooo many "thrashterpiece" songs. You can not find a bad overkill album no matter how much you try. Their sound never changed, their genre never changed. Still classic thrash metal, still kickass live performances.
 
Yelloweyedemon said:
The big four are just the most popular thrash bands, but just because they are the most popular it doesn't mean they are the "best" thrash metal bands.

Metallica are not even playing thrash anymore. Their three first albums were awesome, but after that, their sound changed so much that most thrash fans do not recognise them as thrash metal anymore. (Top reason for that is that mustaine left the band).

Anthrax had also awesome albums (the first three), but their sound "softened" on stage of euphoria, and after that, they never came back to classic thrash metal. Also in my opinion, there is no Anthrax without Joey Belladona. (Lol I have a friend that always says "Anthrax died with Ian's hair" ;P)

Megadeth are definatelly among the best thrash metal bands. In my opinion the only band of big four that deserves to be that high. Almost all their albums are good AND thrash. Mustaine is definatelly one of the best guitarists ever, and without him thrash would not be the same. (He was a major influence for the genre)

Slayer.. hmm personally I do not like slayer, or at least not much as other thrash bands. Sure they have classic stuff such as angel of death and raining blood, but they are not as technical as other bands. Their sound had much more influence on death metal than thrash.

Other than megadeth I would put bands like Exodus, Kreator, Metal church, Vio-lence, Nuclear assault, DRI, Tankard, Testament, Sodom, (I still have lots in mind) over the rest of the "big four" anyday.

But in my opinion nothing can be compared to Overkill. 16 studio albums, 2 live albums, sooo many live performances over the 30+ years they are active and sooo many "thrashterpiece" songs. You can not find a bad overkill album no matter how much you try. Their sound never changed, their genre never changed. Still classic thrash metal, still kickass live performances.
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I don't really have any problem with Megadeth I agree they are easily the best of the big four and I don't think Dave is nearly as bad a singer as people say he is. Slayer has only gotten worse since their first album South of Heaven was awful and I hate it. I swear I seem to be the only guy who doesn't care for Metallicas old stuff. Anthrax was inconsistent but they did put out some good stuff.

Overkill is pretty damn consistent but they did go through a period of weaker material just never made anything near as awful as Lulu, or God hates us all. That said the Years of Decay is a masterpiece and set next to Master of Puppets its easily a superior album. My favorite thrash band though is Voivod but their best stuff was more prog.
 
Bathoryswans said:
Dude your supposed to be on my side.
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:lol::lol:

Relax, mostly I agree with you but I try to be as fair as I can when it comes to a discussion in here.

We all have passions and take sides, the secret is to accept the pasture may not be greener on the other side but is good enough for the other cows...people :p

BTW, I realize Death Angel has not being mentioned extensively. I think "The Art Of Dying" is near masterpiece and the new one is damn good (playing it as I type).
 
Wyvern said:
:lol::lol:

Relax, mostly I agree with you but I try to be as fair as I can when it comes to a discussion in here.

We all have passions and take sides, the secret is too be accept the pasture may not be greener on the other side but is good enough for the other cows...people :p

BTW, I realize Death Angel has not being mentioned extensively. I think "The Art Of Dying" is near masterpiece and the new one is damn good (playing it as I type).
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I just swear it feels lonely being about the only guy who doesn't think highly of Kill em all, Master of puppets, and ...And justice for all. Sure there's Ultraboris but he badmouthed Voivod and that is unforgiveable. I love me some Nothingface and The outer limits.
 
I really have enjoyed reading everyones opinions on all of these great bands. The Big 4 will always be in a different order according to taste but here is mine:

Metallica
Exodus
Testament
Megadeth

If you simply go back and listen to each bands earliest 2 or 3 albums you realize that these bands were busy slaying every fan that was willing to get in front of them back in their "club" days. There are so many underrated bands from that genre. Coroner being one of many and Annihilator being another. Both killer thrash bands that never got their due.
 
Old school Megadeth rules, but thats just me. I never liked Anthrax. Vendetta and Coroner kick ass. So does Nuclear Assault. Sadus too. 80s thrash is my favorite
 
Haha, I dunno. At the time I thought it was funny... you said it was just you, but it was Dave and Dave too... yeah, totally not funny.

Anyway!

Megadeth are my favourite band.
 
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