Does a studio really matter for vocals?

[jangoux]

aortizjr, besides the 3124+, we´ve got a Portico and a DBX386. With the Portico it usually sounds muddy and the DBX sounds meh for vocals.

Ermz, For me the SM7 works for rock music only, anything else it is crap. But it depend a lot of the singer, as you know of course As for the U87, well, it is weird, like you said, it is scooped as fuck on some areas, and kinda hyped on others. We´ve also got a TLM-something in there that I also dont like its character. When i apply compression (to both U87 and TLM), that character thing sounds even worse. The 414, on the other side, is a very scooped mic, but in general, a scoopness that works better - for me at least.


We´ve got a vocal booth in there that´s around 80 cm wide, 2,7m tall and 3 meters deep, with two walls covered with ´acoustim foam´ as my boss says. Do any of you guys think a vocal recording would work in there? i imagine a lot of phase problems, but whatever...

 

[Ermz]

Well man, maybe you just generally dislike the character of the U87. This one here was done with one: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Music/Untruth - Drones.mp3

Whereas I believe large parts of this were done with SM7 (this was one of the instances it really worked on the singer IMO): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Music/Untruth - Drones.mp3

Mind you both of those are before I started compressing a lot. I think back then I only staged 2 or 3 compressors, whereas now I'm staging 4 or 5.

And I would show you the record I currently wrapped with the SM7 that had the ton of junk but its about to head off to mastering and isn't quite ready .

 

[GarethSE]

Jay, word of warning. It took me many a vocal session to nail down the details for recording with hand holding an SM57, be prepared to sit there and tinker with minute details in preamp gain, where you're holding the mic, the distance the mic is away from the singers mouth... everything basically. With work it can work, but I'd probably advise getting a decent condenser and making a little vocal booth like the one pictured above.
My SM57 technique comes from me being exceedingly poor. So I've had to nail down this ridiculously convoluted technique out of necessity rather than it being something I *WANT* to do.
If you can afford an SM7, get one of those, hold it by hand, you're set. 57's? Not so easy.

 

[JayB]

Jay, word of warning. It took me many a vocal session to nail down the details for recording with hand holding an SM57, be prepared to sit there and tinker with minute details in preamp gain, where you're holding the mic, the distance the mic is away from the singers mouth... everything basically. With work it can work, but I'd probably advise getting a decent condenser and making a little vocal booth like the one pictured above.
My SM57 technique comes from me being exceedingly poor. So I've had to nail down this ridiculously convoluted technique out of necessity rather than it being something I *WANT* to do.
If you can afford an SM7, get one of those, hold it by hand, you're set. 57's? Not so easy.

Thanks for the tips man... I have a lot of patience so I'm sure I could take the time to iron out the kinks of the SM57. Maybe I'll look into a condenser mic now that I've seen the cool ghetto box thing. I actually was looking at this one , do you know if these are any good?

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT3035-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B0002D06AE/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1274461139&sr=8-21[/ame]

 

[JeffTD]

However a dynamic mic is just going to have more of a skewed signal, with more junk, than a decent condenser.

This is really strange, since by design, the SM7 is a mic that will actually reduce mouth noises and odd shit compared to others. Your experience with the plosives and sibilance is most definitely an issue with the micing/pop filter/processing on the way in, as that mic is pretty damn awesome when used right.

One of my friends records audio books for a living, and they had Dr. Drew come in (Loveline radio show, Celebrity Rehab dude). With the standard U87/ISA combo they run, the guy had a ridiculously noisy mouth and weird sibilances, spit sounds and lip smacks all over. You don't hear it at all on the radio, so they got to asking some questions, find out he uses an RE20 in the studio, so they slapped an SM7 on him since it was the closest thing they had, and wah-lah - no more mouth noises.

 

[Skinny Viking]

I´ve made a "portable iso booth" this week to use with my SM57 after hear the stunning performance from the dude that made a cover of Slipknot on this thread. I´ve used fiberglass panels instead of foam on mine because I´ve read everywhere that they´re way better than foam for this purpose. In theory it should be similar to track on a real vocal iso booth in terms of "dead sound", so it´s probably a good alternative for home recoding ghetto style. Looks like shit but works. Cost me around US$ 15.

Here´s a pic of the box closed, open and armed on the mic stand (the blue paper thing is there just to act as a shelf between the pop filter clamp and the box).

Tutorial?

 

[JayB]

Tutorial?

SECONDED !

 

[JayB]

just found this

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...how-to-make-a-portable-desktop-vox-booth.html

 

[chrisrivalry]

something about that just makes it seem like you'll sound like you're screaming into an empty paper towel roll. if you want isolation, setup a few heavy blankets around you on some mic stands and you're done.

 

[JayB]

something about that just makes it seem like you'll sound like you're screaming into an empty paper towel roll. if you want isolation, setup a few heavy blankets around you on some mic stands and you're done.

This dude did it

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ipknot-cover-disasterpiece-vocals-posted.html
def doesn't sound like paper towel roll....

 

[chrisrivalry]

the way I look at it, if you're using an sm58/57, the extraneous noises are going to be minimum from the pickup pattern. The minor room corrections suggested should be more than sufficient, to me it doesn't justify spending that extra bit of money on something that doesn't serve that much of a purpose. It is a little noticeable on the spoken word part during the bridge, sounds boxy, for lack of a better term and certainly no pun intended.

 

[JayB]

the way I look at it, if you're using an sm58/57, the extraneous noises are going to be minimum from the pickup pattern. The minor room corrections suggested should be more than sufficient, to me it doesn't justify spending that extra bit of money on something that doesn't serve that much of a purpose. It is a little noticeable on the spoken word part during the bridge, sounds boxy, for lack of a better term and certainly no pun intended.

what do you mean when you say "doesn't justify the extra money"? Do you mean I should just get the 57 instead of springing for a more expensive condenser?

 

[chrisrivalry]

I was talking about the vocal box thing, the whole 57 or condenser thing... that sounds like a debate that's best left to a gearslutz forum, just get a sm7 and a decent preamp like the rnp, throw up some blankets on mic stands and record. You really won't notice much of a difference between condenser microphones up until you start spending major bucks, despite what the slutz say. For me, in my room, with my voice and my gear, I've had the best luck with an mxl v67g, no lie. Just figure out what works best for you and use that.

 

[narcossintese]

chrisrivalry: something about that just makes it seem like you'll sound like you're screaming into an empty paper towel roll. if you want isolation, setup a few heavy blankets around you on some mic stands and you're done. (...) to me it doesn't justify spending that extra bit of money on something that doesn't serve that much of a purpose.

It´s not only a box, there´s fiberglass all around it to kill the reflections. Fiberglass is way better than blankets and acoustic foam for this, and it is MUCH easier to store (it´s a box!) and to setup (just put on the pop filter clamp and that´s it). The whole thing costed me just US$ 15 and took no more than 20 minutes to build!

Tutorial?

I used this one here with the following changes:

instead of acoustic foam I used fiberglass panel

instead of using a mini mic stand on the bottom of the box, I´ve made a small hole from where I pass the mic cable and the top of my normal sized mic stand.

to fixate the box on the right height I put a piece of cardboard paper between the pop filter clamp (attached to the mic stand) and the box to act as a shelf, otherwise the box won´t stay still. This way I can adjust the height with the mic stand. I´ve seen that this was a problem on the original tutorial.

I have not removed one side of the box, I just cutted it on the corner in a way that I can fold it (check the pic where it is all setup). It´s easier to store and keep clean when you have the whole box.

I´ve used small pieces of tape to glue the fiberglass panels to the box.

Any doubts you can PM me.

 

[chrisrivalry]

but shouldn't there be some amount of room reflections on the recording, to make it sound somewhat natural. Or is this a lost cause in the land of amp sims and programmed drums... can't we at least keep vocals natural!!!

 

[narcossintese]

but shouldn't there be some amount of room reflections on the recording, to make it sound somewhat natural. Or is this a lost cause in the land of amp sims and programmed drums... can't we at least keep vocals natural!!!

?
If by natural you mean reflections from an untreated room and comb filtering I´m afraid the answer is no. People have always tracked vocals on iso booths, the only difference here is that we are isolating only the mic, that it is what matters, instead of the whole room.

 

[chrisrivalry]

well if you isolate the microphone and the singer with dampening then that should solve the problem of reflections, and not every vocal is recorded in an iso booth. Not to mention the inherent problems associated with not treating the room properly. Let's take this into consideration; assuming you're tracking in the same room as what you might consider the "control room" in this situation given the fact that you're recording yourself if I'm not mistaken? then what happens when you go to mix this track? all what you're doing is throwing a finger into a dike, and not the good kind. Do yourself a huge favor and treat the room that you're in properly or else the reflection box/ anabolic chamber contraption isn't going to give a wick of a difference in the larger picture. After all, what's the point in having a dry vocal track if you can't even mix it in properly?

 

[narcossintese]

Do yourself a huge favor and treat the room that you're in properly or else the reflection box/ anabolic chamber contraption isn't going to give a wick of a difference in the larger picture.

How exactly mixing on an untreated room will deny the benefits of a cleaner tracking session? To have a track with minimum comb filtering and noises is much better than a track recorded raw on an untreated room, no matter where you are going to mix it.

What you´re saying is pretty much like saying that there will only be difference between tracking a guitar with a Behringer or a Mesa Boogie if you´re going to mix it on a acoustic treated room. Even if you´re mixing it on iphones you can hear the difference. A room doesn´t magically adds noise to the tracks when played back.

The same way iso boothes aren´t necessary to track vocals, a treated room is even less necessary when it comes to mixing. Wasn´t Black Neon Bob who mixed on headphones?

 

[chrisrivalry]

the whole analogy with the amps is flawed, that would be saying that you're using two different singers in that case. It doesn't matter how clean of a SINGLE track or instrument is, because if the room sucks then you'll never get the mix right. That's why it's better to treat the room properly, you'll have a bomb ass sounding room to track vocals in, and one that you can properly mix in. Ok, well you've given one person who mixes on headphones, shall I provide a list of every ME that has mixed on monitors?

 

[narcossintese]

Ok, well you've given one person who mixes on headphones, shall I provide a list of every ME that has mixed on monitors?

Not at all, but you´re missing the whole point of the thread. The question is: "Does a studio really matter for vocals"?

My answer is: it doesn´t matter if you can get that kind of quality with quick and cheap tricks.

Your answer is: it doesn´t matter as long as you turn your whole room on a studio and keep calling it room.

You say as if the room where you are mixing inprint unwanted data on the tracks previously recorded. It does not. A clean vocal track will be better than a noisy one no matter if you´re mixing on a studio or with your laptop at the beach. The same way a Mesa track will be better than a Behringer one under the same circustances.