Don't watch this if you are squemish

[metallicdistort]

And because of that we should just sit back and do jack shit? I don't know too many details about the Muslim religion and the Koran (don't know how it's spelled outside of Holland), but should we just sit back when females get killed by their dads because a guy raped those females?

So what do you propose we do, force them to conform to our culture? How would we do that, invade them a la Iraq/Afghanistan? That's the way "democracy" seems to work these ways, forcing other cultures to conform to your ideology.

A lot of people outside of the Western world disapprove of our culture too, yet you wouldn't like it if they intervened and altered it to suit them.

It's not as if our culture is morally superior either. People "sit back and do jack shit" about that though.

 

[Never the same]

So what do you propose we do, force them to conform to our culture? How would we do that, invade them a la Iraq/Afghanistan? That's the way "democracy" seems to work these ways, forcing other cultures to conform to your ideology.

A lot of people outside of the Western world disapprove of our culture too, yet you wouldn't like it if they intervened and altered it to suit them.

It's not as if our culture is morally superior either.

I'm not saying anything about the ways to make them stop doing this; but you make it seem that only because they are another culture it's reasonable for them to slaughter bulls or in my case kill innocent women.

 

[metallicdistort]

I don't think it's reasonable that they are doing it, but I don't feel I have any right to condemn a culture that is different to mine, where people have been brought up under a different environment and view life in a completely different way to me, as if their culture is somehow inferior to mine, and I know best because of it.

A good quote which I feel is appropriate is : "There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures".

And you did say "And because of that we should just sit back and do jack shit?", suggesting you think we personally should be interfering.

 

[Pablokers]

No, hes saying you dont have the background knowledge about these cultures to criticize them so avidly. And that you cant force people to change their ways just because you think its wrong. Because some people might hate your culture too, and I dont think you would want them fiddling about and trying to change yours. Anyway you are all entitled to your opinion of course. Oh god I wish we were like the "United Federation of Planets".

 

[metallicdistort]

No, hes saying you dont have the background knowledge about these cultures to criticize them so avidly. And that you cant force people to change their ways just because you think its wrong. Because some people might hate your culture too, and I dont think you would want them fiddling about and trying to change yours. Anyway you are all entitled to your opinion of course. Oh god I wish we were like the "United Federation of Planets".

That's exactly what I was saying. At least someone understood it!

But this is just the way the world works, what you think is wrong is right to many other people, you can't force the whole world to conform to what you think is wrong and what you think is right.

 

[Never the same]

I don't think it's reasonable that they are doing it, but I don't feel I have any right to condemn a culture that is different to mine, where people have been brought up under a different environment and view life in a completely different way to me, as if their culture is somehow inferior to mine, and I know best because of it.

A good quote which I feel is appropriate is : "There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures".

And you did say "And because of that we should just sit back and do jack shit?", suggesting you think we personally should be interfering.

Maybe in this way our culture is better. Because we don't kill innocent women who got raped by men. If there are two cultures, one that doesn't and one that does condemn killing women who get raped, you obviously pick the first one because it's better.

You know damn sure that this (murder) is wrong.

 

[metallicdistort]

Maybe in this way our culture is better. Because we don't kill innocent women who got raped by men. If there are two cultures, one that doesn't and one that does condemn killing women who get raped, you obviously pick the first one because it's better.

You know damn sure that this is wrong.

I personally think that bullfighting is wrong. But I don't think it is up to me, some guy who hasn't been brought up wiith that way of life, to decide whether it should occur or not in another country with another culture. That should be up to the people of Spain.

And our culture is not innocent at all. We encourage corporations to exploit 3rd world countries and their people, and destroy the Amazon and all it's inhabitants, in order to cut costs and make money. We invade countries to steal their natural resources, and support atrocities all over the world. We have a culture where you are encouraged to benefit yourself by making others suffer, and allow ridiculous inequalities to occur in our own country.

And we do encourage killing innocent people. We've killed several hundred thousand innocents in Iraq.

So I'd argue we are probably worse.

 

[Never the same]

I personally think that bullfighting is wrong. But I don't think it is up to me, some guy who hasn't been brought up in that way of life, to decide whether it should occur or not. That should be up to the people of Spain.

And our culture is not innocent at all. We encourage corporations to exploit 3rd world countries and their people, and destroy the Amazon and all it's inhabitants, in order to cut costs and make money. We invade countries to steal their natural resources and support atrocities all over the world. We have a culture where you are encouraged to benefit yourself by making others suffer, and allow ridiculous inequalities to occur in our own country.

And we do encourage killing innocent people. We've killed several hundred thousand innocents in Iraq.

So I'd argue we are probably worse.

How can you say we are worse, if you just said that you couldn't criticize a culture if you weren't brought up in said country or don't know all the details. For a comparison you need to know both parties.

Also, I didn't say WE were innocent. If we take an ever greater step in history, and say that the German nazi's were a culture, should we stop them from killing millions or just be like "Ah what do I know, different culture".

Sure sure it's etnocentrism and essentialism all over the fucking place, but some things are just so wrong.

 

[Pablokers]

How can you say we are worse, if you just said that you couldn't criticize a culture if you weren't brought up in said country or don't know all the details. For a comparison you need to know both parties.

Also, I didn't say WE were innocent. If we take an ever greater step in history, and say that the German nazi's were a culture, should we stop them from killing millions or just be like "Ah what do I know, different culture".

I think he means England.

 

[Never the same]

I think he means England.

Did England kill several hundred thousands of people in Iraq?

 

[metallicdistort]

How can you say we are worse, if you just said that you couldn't criticize a culture if you weren't brought up in said country or don't know all the details. For a comparison you need to know both parties.

Also, I didn't say WE were innocent. If we take an ever greater step in history, and say that the German nazi's were a culture, should we stop them from killing millions or just be like "Ah what do I know, different culture".

No, that is completely different. Bullfighting is rooted in hundreds of years of culture. The Nazi party was not cultural in that way. And we only took action against them when they invaded other countries and exerted their ideology upon them (just like we have done in Iraq/Afghanistan). Maybe if Spain started trying to force bullfighting upon other countries we could personally take measures to ban it, but they have not.

Fine, I'd just say we are no better than the cultures you are criticising.

 

[metallicdistort]

Did England kill several hundred thousands of people in Iraq?

It is hard to tell who killed how many, but we were part of, and supported the killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians.

 

[Never the same]

No, that is completely different. Bullfighting is rooted in hundreds of years of culture. The Nazi party was not cultural in that way. And we only took action against them when they invaded other countries and exerted their ideology upon them (just like we have done in Iraq/Afghanistan). Maybe if Spain started trying to force bullfighting upon other countries we could personally take measures to ban it, but they have not.

Fine, I'd just say we are no better than the cultures you are criticising.

So there's an age limit for cultures? That sucks for a group of people who want to be a culture but are just two damn days too young.

We took action when they invaded other countries yes, but you think that, if they hadn't invaded other countries nor exerted their ideology's, and still slaughtered all those jews, that we shouldn't act?

 

[metallicdistort]

So there's an age limit for cultures? That sucks for a group of people who want to be a culture but are just two damn days too young.

We took action when they invaded other countries yes, but you think that, if they hadn't invaded other countries nor exerted their ideology's, and still slaughtered all those jews, that we shouldn't act?

Well obviously predominant cultures take many years to form. Comparing Spain's culture to the Nazis is just one of the most ridiculous and insulting analogies I've ever heard.

Well obviously if we knew they killed millions of Jews we would've acted, and it would've been justified. But genocide is COMPLETELY different to small amounts of animal abuse, which is far overshadowed by the animal abuse which occurs in order for food to end up on your plate. It's funny how people don't complain about that, but if it's over something which doesn't affect them, it's so easy for them to criticise.

 

[Never the same]

Well obviously predominant cultures take many years to form. Comparing Spain's culture to the Nazis is just one of the most ridiculous and insulting analogies I've ever heard.

Well obviously if we knew they killed millions of Jews we should've acted. But that's completely different to small amounts of animal abuse, which is far overshadowed by the animal abuse which occurs in order for food to end up on your plate. It's funny how people don't complain about that, but if it's over something which doesn't affect them, it's so easy for them to criticise them.

Again, I am not comparing Spain / Nazi Germany. I just said Spain has a culture yeah. And you can see Nazi Germany as a culture too. That's all.

Oh so if the nazi germans killed maybe only 10000 jews (which is a small amount compared to the original millions) it should be allright?

And the bullfight abuse is a fucking SPORT mate. The cows and chickens and pigs end up on our dinner table.

 

[metallicdistort]

Again, I am not comparing Spain / Nazi Germany. I just said Spain has a culture yeah. And you can see Nazi Germany as a culture too. That's all.

Oh so if the nazi germans killed maybe only 10000 jews (which is a small amount compared to the original millions) it should be allright?

And the bullfight abuse is a fucking SPORT mate. The cows and chickens and pigs end up on our dinner table.

No, you are saying that the brief years of Nazi Germany is equitable to the hundreds of years of culture that Spain has experienced. Nazi Germany was not a culture in the same respect. Such a culture is something which is passed down through generations, not enforced out of nowhere. If it Nazi Germany was a culture, it was one that was forced upon the people, and undemocratically regulated, unlike the culture of Spain.

Any mass killings (especially based on race) should not at all be tolerated.

If animal abuse really concerned you, you would also oppose it regardless of whether it benefited you or not.

Alas, this is not the point, I personally don't agree with bullfighting. But my argument was that it is something that is just ingrained in their culture.

 

[Covet Chaos]

Bullfighting to Nazi Germany.

 

[Never the same]

No, you are saying that the brief years of Nazi Germany is equitable to the hundreds of years of culture that Spain has experienced. Nazi Germany was not a culture in the same respect. Such a culture is something which is passed down through generations, not enforced out of nowhere. If it Nazi Germany was a culture, it was one that was forced upon the people, and undemocratically regulated, unlike the culture of Spain.

Any mass killings (especially based on race) should not at all be tolerated.

If animal abuse really concerned you, you would also oppose it regardless of whether it benefited you or not.

Alas, this is not the point, I personally don't agree with bullfighting. But my argument was that it is something that is just ingrained in their culture.

Culture: The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group.

And my argument is that just because it's ingrained in their culture doesn't mean we can just do nothing about it if it's pretty obvious that it's harmful to animals.

 

[Pablokers]

You know, you keep saying Spain's culture, but our country is one of the most divided in Europe. We have more than 5 different languages that are spoken in our country, and a lot of people from the regions where they speak these languages are against bullfighting. Because its a spanish custom, not basque, galician or catalan. So you cant really judge the whole of Spain if you know what Im saying.

 

[metallicdistort]

Culture: The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group.

And my argument is that just because it's ingrained in their culture doesn't mean we can just do nothing about it if it's pretty obvious that it's harmful to animals.

But Nazi Germany culture was dictated by a few fascists and forced on the people. The culture of Spain was developed by the people over many years. How can you honestly believe that they are the same things?

What should we be doing about it then? Why aren't we doing more about some of the worse atrocities on this planet instead? How about the Israeli enslavement of millions of Palestinians?

It is up to the Spanish alone to decide whether bullfighting should remain illegal or not, as we cannot decide the shape of their legitimate culture. We can however condemn atrocities that aren't cultural or democratic in the same way.

The majority of Catalonia agreed bullfighting should be banned, and it was banned in that area, so they are not incapable of banning it if the rest of Spain feels the same way.