Covet Chaos
Weedian
Basque are quite set aside from Spain too. I know the ETA are fighting for their own independance and when I was in Majorca 4 bombs went off right near us. It was a strange holiday!
Don't watch this if you are squemish
- Thread starter Slatanictrash
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Pablokers
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- Feb 13, 2008
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Well I live in the Basque country hehe so I know all about that. People are scared of this place because of terrorism, but not much happens here as the bombs usually go off somewhere else. That said, Im not a Basque nationalist but I do treasure the Basque culture and the Spanish one. They both have their ups and downs as any of them do.
Covet Chaos
Weedian
Haha I did not know that! What do the Basque people have that is serperate from Spain. I remember reading about a few things like a seperate police force. But I have a rubbish memory.
Jeremy Clarkson did a pretty interesting programme on Spain, which discussed bullfighting and The Basque, as part of his Jeremy Clarkson Meets The Neighbours series, good watch if you can tolerate the man (I personally find him hilarious)
Covet Chaos
Weedian
Again, a culture is appareantly a group of people with the same thoughts / values. Who says anything about how a culture came to life or how long that took.
You say that you cannot force other cultures to stop doing something which is just WRONG (why I brought up the oh so controversial argument of the holocaust). That's my point, should we just sit back and let shit happen? First you say we shouldn't interfere, but now you say we should in the forms of Israelian imprisonment.
I don't have any clue on what about to do, but that's not up to me, and not related to this. Yeah why don't we just go tackle the food problem in all 3rd world countries first.
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No, I said we shouldn't force other cultures to adopt the same ideologies as us. Killing other humans is considered universally immoral in all parts of the world, however, in many other countries, such as Spain, animal rights aren't considered as important. Would you force them to change their ideologies? That clearly won't work, the issue is that it is ingrained into their culture, and no matter how much you want it, you cannot force them to change. Condemning murder is not unfairly forcing people to change their culture, against their wishes.
You really aren't reading my argument are you? I said that whilst we should act against international, illegal, atrocities such as the Israeli imprisonment of several million Palestinians, we have no right (legal or moral) to interfere with domestic issues such as bullfighting in Spain.
At least we agree on something, I personally believe 3rd world food starvation is an issue we should devote more time and effort into than bullfighting.
Yeah we pretty much say the same thing, only that in my case I value animals as high as humans, and you don't.
(and I bring odd history things into the equation).
(and I bring odd history things into the equation).
Weapon X
Raised to be Lowered
At the same time you can't or shouldn't force other cultures to ban specific practices, but you sure as hell can tell them that they are wrong, like they should be able to do to you.
Just because it isn't your culture, does not mean you cannot be outraged and express yourself in a dignified manner. If there are enough opposition to certain practices, then maybe that culture might think it is wrong or change the way these things are done and maybe they won't, but at lease you have expressed yourself and something you feel strongly about.
Cultures should evolve as they will, but some practices are barbaric by most cultures and even some within the culture. But the change must happen within the culture otherwise the change won't happen, and I hope changes happen.
Just because it isn't your culture, does not mean you cannot be outraged and express yourself in a dignified manner. If there are enough opposition to certain practices, then maybe that culture might think it is wrong or change the way these things are done and maybe they won't, but at lease you have expressed yourself and something you feel strongly about.
Cultures should evolve as they will, but some practices are barbaric by most cultures and even some within the culture. But the change must happen within the culture otherwise the change won't happen, and I hope changes happen.
Yeah, obviously you can express your opinions and criticise other cultures, but people need to understand that everything is relative to the culture you are brought up in, and people aren't "savages" just because you don't understand their way of life.
That's why I mentioned that for me it's etnocentrism all over the place.
When I get worked up about something I go all weird like (last two pages were a good example)
I just cannot comprehend how other people do certain things they do, even if it's part of their upbringing.
Wow
I am impressed with the way this discussion went, some of the points I note were valid but I think the real point was missed completely, Bullfighting is considered to be entertainment as I said, surely with the vast options available of entertainment at our disposal nowadays, mankind has got to move on from seeing animals being killed for entertainment, the more people that start to realise that there is no dignity in killing animals for sport or entertainment the better, the royal parasites we have here are a classic case of holding onto an antiquated beliefs system that no longer fits within a modern day society
Fighting wars over ideology or democracy is not the same, I think before humans can start to show humanity to their fellow human beings they have to show the same humanity to animals, it's so easy killing a fly without thinking, if we start to think about all forms of life, how they all have a right to live in this world, the better this world would be
Now this is a extreme case of me being utter and completely fucking illusional, but it's a fact
Before treating our fellow humans beings with respect we have to show the same level of tolerance and respect to animals, if we can't do that then nothing changes, we will all go on fighting and killing each other as before
I am impressed with the way this discussion went, some of the points I note were valid but I think the real point was missed completely, Bullfighting is considered to be entertainment as I said, surely with the vast options available of entertainment at our disposal nowadays, mankind has got to move on from seeing animals being killed for entertainment, the more people that start to realise that there is no dignity in killing animals for sport or entertainment the better, the royal parasites we have here are a classic case of holding onto an antiquated beliefs system that no longer fits within a modern day society
Fighting wars over ideology or democracy is not the same, I think before humans can start to show humanity to their fellow human beings they have to show the same humanity to animals, it's so easy killing a fly without thinking, if we start to think about all forms of life, how they all have a right to live in this world, the better this world would be
Now this is a extreme case of me being utter and completely fucking illusional, but it's a fact
Before treating our fellow humans beings with respect we have to show the same level of tolerance and respect to animals, if we can't do that then nothing changes, we will all go on fighting and killing each other as before
I'm just going to throw this out there, but if I was a bull I'd far rather be used for bullfighting than bred purely for human consumption. Whereas bulls in slaughterhouses spend their lives herded into horrendous, cramped conditions and slaughtered, bulls bred for bullfighting get to enjoy a far more pleasent life where they are free to enjoy themselves. I'd happily take being killed in bullfighting in exchange for a much higher quality of life. I wouldn't be going to waste either, people still eat the bull afterwards.
One could also argue that with all the other alternative foods available, why do we need to slaughter animals for food? For the same reason people condone bullfighting, for pleasure.
Not saying I agree with this, just throwing the point out there.
Do you not mean Cows?
I am curious to what other alternative foods you are talking about, if you mean fruit and vegatables, then nope, I enjoy eating meat and have no qualms about eating meat, I just detest the idea of killing animals for entertainment, as I said before, with the vast options available nowadays for entertainment surely we should, as mankind, move on from bloodsports
Do you not mean Cows?
I am curious to what other alternative foods you are talking about, if you mean fruit and vegatables, then nope, I enjoy eating meat and have no qualms about eating meat, I just detest the idea of killing animals for entertainment, as I said before, with the vast options available nowadays for entertainment surely we should, as mankind, move on from bloodsports
I mean cows AND bulls, both are slaughtered inhumanely.
But with the same logic, we have vast options of foods, surely we should move on from killing animals just for our eating pleasure? Just like you enjoy eating meat and have no qualms about it, people enjoy bullfighting and have no qualms about it.
Not saying I agree with this, just playing devil's advocate cos it's interesting.
We will call this a draw, I am too fuckin tired as I hae just completed my 6th nightshift and I have one more to go
I realise that, it's an expression we use when both sides have valid points and instead of going over and over saying the same thing, we just use the expression
"Lets call it a draw" in other words, justs let stop altogether as it will get boring repeating the same thing over and over again when clearly the discussion is deadlocked with nowhere to go and it will stop us from saying the same things over and over again as there is nothing worse that someone going on over and over the same thing over and over again
Quite irritating that isn't it?
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