Drum edits - how tight is tight enough?/how tight is too tight?

[MattRas]

Hey guys!

A few weeks ago my band tracked drums for our debut album and I'm currently editing and it's going well, but I'm kind of zoomed so much in at the details that I feel I might be missing the bigger picture. At the moment I'm pretty much placing everything on the grid, and while I like the way it sounds, I fear that it might be over the top. The genre is proggy/folky/gypsy-rock (hard to classify), so it's definitely a more "organic" genre than, say, tech-death.

What's your approach to drum edits? Do they sound "real" even though you're quantizing everything?

Here's a sample of one of the edited tracks - any nasty artifacts? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6017642/Poltergeist drum edit 211113.mp3

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

The clip sounds good I don't hear any artifacts. When I edit drums I use the slip edit method and move the hits anywhere from directly on time to ever so slightly late. Nothing is ever early. Sometimes if I like the feel I will leave a section unedited.

 

[MattRas]

The clip sounds good I don't hear any artifacts. When I edit drums I use the slip edit method and move the hits anywhere from directly on time to ever so slightly late. Nothing is ever early. Sometimes if I like the feel I will leave a section unedited.

Cheers! Yeah, I'm using slip editing as well. I like the workflow, although my eyes are bleeding after a few hours of work!

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Cheers! Yeah, I'm using slip editing as well. I like the workflow, although my eyes are bleeding after a few hours of work!

I would suggest setting up markers for every change in the song, that way you can easily know when you've reached a new part and can go back and check the one you just did before continuing.

Other than that, drum editing is the audio equivalent of unclogging a shitty toilet with your bare hands so don't expect it to be a walk in the park :Spin:

 

[MattRas]

I would suggest setting up markers for every change in the song, that way you can easily know when you've reached a new part and can go back and check the one you just did before continuing.

Other than that, drum editing is the audio equivalent of unclogging a shitty toilet with your bare hands so don't expect it to be a walk in the park :Spin:

Haha, spot on! Luckily I'm almost there! 9 songs edited, 2 to go! Bass tracking starts monday

 

[Daybreak]

I would say that clip sounds really good, although thinking about it it sounds really (REALLY) tight. But I don't think it's something you would think about in a full mix. And I personally like my things VERY tight, so I would prolly go for it as it is.

 

[JeffTD]

By default I do 90% strength. If I'm doing something by hand it's basically a game of averages while referencing backings but honestly it's still pretty close to gridded.

 

[C_F_H_13]

Yeah I'm kind if it the same realm as jeff. Obviously style changes what I do a lot, but for more heavier stuff I'm pretty heavy handed. Close to 100% on some stuff so all the samples/loops/layers are all locked together. But having said that I usually only edit to quarters or 8ths and only edit down to 16ths if something is fucked. Drummer matters of course, if someone can really play, then it becomes more selective.

 

[crillemannen]

To OP: the clip sounds good, but the drummer hits like a pussy haha! I always tell the drummers i record to man up and hit the snare hard!

Im doing 100% on grid. If going for like 90% then you all hits need to be on and off aka randomized. Cause i can totally hear 1 hit be off if the rest is 100% on, even if its less then a 32/4 note.

One thing that becomes clearer is the un-edited parts vs the edited. Like if you are starting doing a song 100% on and then want to leave a part that has a bit more swing to it i always feel that the unedited part sound to off haha, unedited drums lives on the swing principal, everything is a little bit off and then it sounds "on" the beat if that makes sense haha . So either edit all 100% or just do some minor manual fixes on hits that are to off.


And i don't hear much swing on the bigger metal productions either, to me most productions sounds like they are 100% on grid.

 

[Mago]

If I'm doing it with Beat Detective then around 90% for the faster metal stuff...most of the time.

If I'm using slip editing then it's going to be as close to the grid as it sounds good, and then keep that for all tracks. Most of the time it's pretty close to the grid.
It will never be as 100% on grid as with programmed drums 100% on grid, so you should be good that way.

 

[MattRas]

Thanks for your feedback everyone!

To OP: the clip sounds good, but the drummer hits like a pussy haha! I always tell the drummers i record to man up and hit the snare hard!

Im doing 100% on grid. If going for like 90% then you all hits need to be on and off aka randomized. Cause i can totally hear 1 hit be off if the rest is 100% on, even if its less then a 32/4 note.

One thing that becomes clearer is the un-edited parts vs the edited. Like if you are starting doing a song 100% on and then want to leave a part that has a bit more swing to it i always feel that the unedited part sound to off haha, unedited drums lives on the swing principal, everything is a little bit off and then it sounds "on" the beat if that makes sense haha . So either edit all 100% or just do some minor manual fixes on hits that are to off.


And i don't hear much swing on the bigger metal productions either, to me most productions sounds like they are 100% on grid.

Yeah, this is pretty much spot on about some of the thoughts I've had about it.

And I'll definitely let my drummer know he's a pussy! (my temporary drum mix has nothing to do with it!)

 

[Line666]

Agree with Crille, on slower stuff I find its worse as well, if it's not tight then because of the amount of space you easily notice differences in timing. I'd have to say that I find more organic tempo tracking is preferable to being slightly lax on the grid as it introduces subtle builds or lulls as defining differences between sections and not internal to them.