Drum velocity - help! ima noob

arcana83

New Metal Member
May 8, 2009
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Hello. assalamulaikum.
I recently began tracking on logic and im using superior drummer 2.0. The drums sounded quite loose ( pre'eqd/compress ) and the avg velocity is about 95. I can change the velocity individually from the 'list' on the right handside but its takes too much time. Im just wondering if theres another way of doing it? m sure m doing it wrong. I use guitar pro to tab the drums Do i pre determined the velocity there? thx guys.. and also if i am to do eq/compression on the drum, do i do each kit seperately or do i just put the eq/compression on the buss?
 
ps: how do u guys get the drums so puncy and powerful? Im so new to this i dont really know what im doing.
 
Hello. assalamulaikum.
I recently began tracking on logic and im using superior drummer 2.0. The drums sounded quite loose ( pre'eqd/compress ) and the avg velocity is about 95. I can change the velocity individually from the 'list' on the right handside but its takes too much time. Im just wondering if theres another way of doing it? m sure m doing it wrong. I use guitar pro to tab the drums Do i pre determined the velocity there? thx guys.. and also if i am to do eq/compression on the drum, do i do each kit seperately or do i just put the eq/compression on the buss?

Doing it in guitar pro is your problem. Yes, you predetermine the velocity there... you really need to adjust the velocity of all drums and cymbals by hand in the piano roll. It's a tedious process but the only way to get realistic results when programming. The other problem with doing it guitar pro is that every single hit is perfectly lined up and in time. You don't want that to happen... you want some things slightly out of sync... for example when playing two drums or a drum and cymbal simultaneously... you will have them playing still at the same time, but you don't want them completely locked to grid perfectly in time beginning at the exact same time... because real drummers don't/can't do that... so it takes away from the realism.

However, there's nothing wrong with using a tab program like guitar pro to write your drumtrack and then import the midi into your DAW.... you just still need to work on the velocity and timing a lot. Some people might find it faster/easier to just click it all out in the midi editor to begin with... all depends on what works for you...
 
you program your drums in guitar pro!?
why don't you do it in the sequencer?
you should ceck out fruity loops. it'sa pattern
based sequencer where you can program patterns
and put them together to a song..LEGO style!
in FL you can randomize the velocity, make the values higher/lower and stuff lie this.
i always use FL to build up the song structure, then i export as MIDI import in cubase and do the fine tuning.
works very well!

cheers
S.
 
I know nothing of logic, but there should be a way of selecting all midi notes and changing their value to say 127. Sure you may not want to keep them all the same, but starting at full volume is going to get you closer to the desired sound than 95. Usually something like Ctrl+A will do the trick.

I still don't quite get why people say to randomize velocities and not to snap notes to a grid when programming... then we go and quantize real drums to grid and trigger to get a consistent velocity. :loco:
 
then we go and quantize real drums to grid and trigger to get a consistent velocity. :loco:

I usually don't quantize every single hit, but rather the ones that sound 'gay'. Regarding the consistent velocity thing you say, I can't recall anyone mentioning that. People compress to tame the peaks more or less, depending on the style.

Edit:
arcana83 said:
Im just wondering if theres another way of doing it?
I'm sure you've heard of the Presonus Faderport which lets you ride volumes by hand using a fader. Do certain midi controllers let you ride velocities in the same manner? I'll check in a while. Btw, I'm not talking about pressure sensivity as you play a keyboard. It's more like, you get a fader sort of a thing that you move around to randomize velocities.

ps: how do u guys get the drums so puncy and powerful? Im so new to this i dont really know what im doing.
Good room with proper bass treatment + parallel compression. And yeh, I've yet to achieve 'punchy and powerful' drums.:erk:
 
Setting insert velocity at 127 is a good start, if you think it sounds to sterile just bring down the velocity a bit of some notes. Dunno how you set insert velocities in logic though. Also there must be some way of selecting multiple midi notes and changing velocity of every note, in cubase you can just select and right click.

I don't think you should change the timing of notes, instead just change velocities. It could sound good sometimes though, for example when hitting 2 cymbals or toms at the same time, then offset one hit very slightly.

Not saying that I'm an expert on drum programming, just my experience from learning it by trial and error :)
 
you program your drums in guitar pro!?
why don't you do it in the sequencer?
you should ceck out fruity loops. it'sa pattern
based sequencer where you can program patterns
and put them together to a song..LEGO style!
in FL you can randomize the velocity, make the values higher/lower and stuff lie this.
i always use FL to build up the song structure, then i export as MIDI import in cubase and do the fine tuning.
works very well!

cheers
S.
i do run fruity loop on bootcamp but i always have problem exporting as midi. I can see why u choose fruity loop as its so easy to architect the beat, fills and rhythm. Ok i might do just that. Thank you guys for the reply. I shall custom alter the velocity 1 by 1 and will definitely try parallel compression. When u say compression.. do ppl normally put in the drum buss? or compress each tom seperately? am using SUPERIOR drummer 2.1
 
Im pretty sure there's drop down menu in the midi bit called 'humanize' with a slider with 0-100 one end being mechanical the other really loose but i think that changes up the velocities of the track regardless of what its set at.

I think i remember Steven Slate saying something about how he just puts them all to 127 and uses humanizer.
I could be wrong though.
 
I know nothing of logic, but there should be a way of selecting all midi notes and changing their value to say 127. Sure you may not want to keep them all the same, but starting at full volume is going to get you closer to the desired sound than 95. Usually something like Ctrl+A will do the trick.

I still don't quite get why people say to randomize velocities and not to snap notes to a grid when programming... then we go and quantize real drums to grid and trigger to get a consistent velocity. :loco:
Yes there is. This is what I do.

First of all. I write my songs in guitar pro. Why? Because it is a program to write music and I write complex drums with different time signatures, so, editing this in my DAW's piano roll (Cubase) is pretty much useless and it would be a pain in the ass. I prefer to have a partiture (I actually use the tablature Guitar Pro uses for drums). So, in Guitar Pro most of the notes have fixed velocities except for parts where I edit it, but still, those are fix (for example forte fortissimo = 127, fortissimo = 120, forte = 110).

When I am done doing my drums I export the midi file from guitar pro and import it to Cubase. Then I go on each part of the drumset and edit the velocities. To randomize it a little what I do is zoom out the view quite a lot, like this:

And I would just hold the left mouse button and go over the velocities I want that part of the drumset to be. I go from left to right and from right to left pretty fast, so that my hand is not accurate and some notes get different velocities. Of course it will happen that a note might get 124 and the next one 90, but then you can fix those notes individually.
Before:

After:


(not:, I did it pretty fast and I didn't care that a lot of notes have the same velocity because it is not a fast song, they won't sound machine-gunned and Superior Drummer has a randomize function that prevents this pretty well)
Ok, let's say I did this and most of the notes are between 110 and 116 and you want them to be 120-126. Then you can select all the velocities for that part of the drum set (e.g. kick) with the Object Selection tool and you go to Midi > functions > velocity. And there you can add/subtract, compress/expand, and limit velocities easily



Then, if there's something that still sounds like a machine-gun, you could try what JoshuaLogan said about getting some notes slightly out of sync, but I would only do that if it is really bugged me in the mix. If it is not noticeable I wouldn't mind having all notes sync'ed, no one will notice that, and the ones that will are those "oh, no, you sampled your drums!! SACRILEGE" guys, and you couldn't care less about them :p

Oh, by the way. I remember reading in this forum that some people liked to have ALL velocities at 127 in Superior Drummer. Well, I don't really like that. I think that sounds even more unnatural than having everything sync'ed. Sounds like if the drummer who recorded those drums had just broken with his girlfriend. I would save 127 velocities for parts that are supposed to be EXTREMELY loud (there is a big difference between 126 and 127 in Superior Drummer)

You can always use a midi controller to get more natural velocities. I own one but didn't have time to try it with SD and I don't think I will for the next 4 months (damn Med. School).
 
SD as in superior drum? yea we have similar way of approaching it. I must say i havent explore the randomize function in SD yet. Il check it out!
 
How to get random velocities in Cubase made easy:

1º First, select all the notes that you want to randomize.

2º Click MIDI in the menu, then -> Logical Presets -> standard set 1 -> Random Velocity (60 to 100)

This will randomize all the velocities of the selected notes to be between 60 and 100. Of course, the velocities are very different now, but we can "compress" them to be more even.

Click Midi in the menu, then -> Functions -> Velocity. In the windows that appears, select Compress and just experiment with the ratio. When the ratio is low, the velocities will be compressed a lot.

Another thing that I usually do is use the Random options in the Track Parameters of the Midi track. You can add Position and Velocity random values there.

:kickass:
 
Any tip for logic user? or i dont have to worry bout this in logic 9? hey guys.. appreciate the replies.
 
How to get random velocities in Cubase made easy:

1º First, select all the notes that you want to randomize.

2º Click MIDI in the menu, then -> Logical Presets -> standard set 1 -> Random Velocity (60 to 100)

This will randomize all the velocities of the selected notes to be between 60 and 100. Of course, the velocities are very different now, but we can "compress" them to be more even.

Click Midi in the menu, then -> Functions -> Velocity. In the windows that appears, select Compress and just experiment with the ratio. When the ratio is low, the velocities will be compressed a lot.

Another thing that I usually do is use the Random options in the Track Parameters of the Midi track. You can add Position and Velocity random values there.

:kickass:
Dude, this is GREAT info I didn't know.

Is there a way to randomize velocities when, for example, a cymbal is hit with alternated hard and soft hits? Take a crash for example and suppose it goes

X x X x X x X x

Can I randomize that and keep those differences or the only way is separating it in two and applying that randomize function to each one?

Also, how do you add random functions to position?