Dual Rectifier vs itself and 6 amp sims (shootout)

[mintcheerios]

Err, I mean 7 amp sims (I can't edit the thread title).

Here is the non-sucky shootout as I promised (well hopefully it doesn't suck ). Real cab means that the amp sim went through the power section of my Dual Rectifier and then was recorded through an SM57. I used the same setup to make an impulse for the + Impulse files. I did this mainly for the shootout contest going on at recordingreview.com (though I was curious myself). The 16 files compare the following:

Amplitube 2 + Impulse
Amplitube 2 Real Cab
Guitar Rig 3 + Impulse
Guitar Rig 3 Real Cab
Overloud TH1 + Impulse
Overloud TH1 Real Cab
Pod Farm + Impulse
Pod Farm Real Cab
Real Amp + Impulse
Real Amp Real Cab
Revalver II + Impulse
Revalver II Real Cab
Revalver III + Impulse
Revalver III Real Cab
Waves GTR3 + Impulse
Waves GTR3 Real Cab

Download them here.

I basically recorded the real amp/cabinet tone first, and then tried to tweak the amp sims to sound like it.

I'll post the key here after awhile. If you really can't wait, you can get it off here (it's key.txt, but you have to register to get it). That text file also contains all the boring details of the process. If that's too much trouble, you can also PM me. If you enjoyed this shootout, you can help me by voting for me on that site (just give my thread a 5 star rating).

Some pics:

 

[Sean in Silence]

Nice!
I'll definitely have to check this out tomorrow or Friday
whenever I have time between school and work
hahaha
Looks promising though!

 

[Unavailable]

I liked 3, 6 and 15 the most.

 

[sandon]

Hey mintcheerios - this is a very interesting comparison!!!
And thanks for that. Good job mate.

I tried to figure out which clips are the same thing. But I was very surprised to find out that they weren't!
I liked most 2+8 and then 3+6 with 10+15 (sounded very silimar to me).

Just one question: did you really make the impulse of the cab without touching anything? (e.g. moving mic etc.)
Because when I was trying to do my own impulse a while ago, I just couldn't tell the diference between mic and IR sound - and also I was able to subtract cab and IR WAVs almost completely - it wasn't digital silence though, the resulting WAV is like 28dB quieter than both subtracted WAVs - that's because I had to change amp volume between miking the cab and doing the test sweep and then I obviously couldn't match both WAVs' volume exactly - so they'd never cancel completely.

 

[mr.L.]

I like 2 and 15 the most. Can't sign up to that website btw.


edit: ok, I was bit impatient. Seen the results now, let's say it was a partial surprise hehe

 

[Metaltastic]

TOOOOOOOOOOO MANY OPTIONS - honestly, it's kinda hard to really give an objective listen to each when there's just so many files; for future reference, since each had a repeat with an impulse, dividing the files into two mystery folders (on with all the mic'ed files, one with all the impulses) would make it much easier to wrangle. Seriously, I wanna give my opinion, but with this many options I just can't trust myself to stick with a viewpoint when it's just one individual guitar file (not even double tracked, no drums, etc.) If you could divide the files between an "impulse" and "real" folder (marked a + b so it's still blind), that'd really help! Thanks dude!

And I voted you 5 stars btw!

 

[mr.L.]

TOOOOOOOOOOO MANY OPTIONS - honestly, it's kinda hard to really give an objective listen to each when there's just so many files; for future reference, since each had a repeat with an impulse, dividing the files into two mystery folders (on with all the mic'ed files, one with all the impulses) would make it much easier to wrangle. Seriously, I wanna give my opinion, but with this many options I just can't trust myself to stick with a viewpoint when it's just one individual guitar file (not even double tracked, no drums, etc.) If you could divide the files between an "impulse" and "real" folder (marked a + b so it's still blind), that'd really help! Thanks dude!

And I voted you 5 stars btw!

I agree that there are many files but to me at least half of them sound far worse than the good ones. So that narrowed it down quite quickly for me.

But you're definitely right that some drums and double or quad tracking would have been nice to really judge the tones.

 

[drew_drummer]

How can you judge guitar tones by putting drums and studio trickery in the way?

 

[Metaltastic]

Well Mr. Luddite, I would hardly consider recording two takes of a riff, hard panning each, and programming some drums "studio trickery" And because I care more about how a guitar tone sounds in some semblance of a mix than by itself

 

[drew_drummer]

Well Mr. Luddite, I would hardly consider recording two takes of a riff, hard panning each, and programming some drums "studio trickery" And because I care more about how a guitar tone sounds in some semblance of a mix than by itself

Luddite? That's a bit of a pointless thing to say, considering I neither attacked you, or anyone else, and asked a simple question. Yes I have a sense of humour, but you display a lack of respect for your fellow forumer.

You would hardly call recording two takes of a riff, and hard panning them, "studio trickery?" Hmm... I wonder if most other engineers would agree with you? It is of course studio trickery, a very old and well known technique to making the guitars sound fatter than they do by with just a single track. But it's also obscuring the tone of the amplifier, and in these kind of tests, it has no place - it's hardly scientific!

As for programming drums... of course they are going to obscure the guitar tone also.

If this kind of test was about hearing sounds in a mix, then all this would be fine. But it is not! It is about hearing the difference between various methods of attaining a guitar tone, and for that, hearing it in a mix is not the focal point of the test.

 

[mr.L.]

I don't know about you but personally I only care about good guitar tones if they sound good in the mix. What is the point otherwise. It's not like we are listening the recordings of just one soloed guitar regularly (nor in a live setting even in midilimidili guitar wanker bands). Since dual or quad tracking is pretty much the standard for recording heavey guitars and this is a recording forum it seems sensible to wonder about this. In addition hardly anything about tone is scientific. In the end it's still a matter of taste.

BTW don't take offense this quickly man

 

[drew_drummer]

I don't know about you but personally I only care about good guitar tones if they sound good in the mix. What is the point otherwise. It's not like we are listening the recordings of just one soloed guitar regularly (nor in a live setting even in midilimidili guitar wanker bands). Since dual or quad tracking is pretty much the standard for recording heavey guitars and this is a recording forum it seems sensible to wonder about this. In addition hardly anything about tone is scientific. In the end it's still a matter of taste.

The test is a scientific test to see how close he can get to a dual recto tone from HIS real amp, in software form. That is a scientific process.

Also; my point is that I find it easier to hear what a tone is like without quad-tracking and placement in the mix. Everything else gets in the way, and yes it may sound good, but it isn't the raw unprocessed sound - and when making a determination, I like to have the rawest sound possible.

This is just my opinion/viewpoint. We'll agree to disagree on this.

BTW don't take offense this quickly man

But you're wrong on this one. It was a pointless comment, and only served to boost Metaltastic's ego. It's not about taking offense, it's about showing respect for other people. I haven't attacked anyone for thinking the way they think in regards to their judgment of tone or their process of HOW to judge tone.

Yet I get called a luddite for having my own individual perspective on the matter... and then I get told not to take offense?

 

[006]

Dude, you just gave me the best idea for my situation by getting a rack like yours but taller! My rack is sitting on the floor by my feet so to make adjustments to the pres or anything i have to bend way down to see, and connecting cables to the back of my interfaces is a pain!

I'll check out the shootout later when I get home, I'm REALLY interested in this.

~006

 

[006]

And Drew, the point with hearing it in a mix is that the sound by itself is rather vague if you think about it. With nothing to gauge it with, we really DON'T know how it sounds, just how each one sounds against the next file in the shootout. With drums, bass and (if possible) vocals, you can really hear how a tone stacks up. Don't get so offended, Marcus didn't mean it nearly as much as you took it, let's all lighten up

What I will be taking from this is nothing more than which simulator he could get to sound the closest to his actual amp. That's all. I don't care how good the tone is or isn't, and all that other useless nonsense. But rather, simply which one can emulate the sound of the real deal.

~006

 

[mr.L.]

The test is a scientific test to see how close he can get to a dual recto tone from HIS real amp, in software form. That is a scientific process.

If you approach it that way it gets a more scientific flavor (although we could question the methodology used here in that case hehe). I approached this as blind test which sounds better, which in the end is hardly scientific.

But you're wrong on this one. It was a pointless comment, and only served to boost Metaltastic's ego. It's not about taking offense, it's about showing respect for other people. I haven't attacked anyone for thinking the way they think in regards to their judgment of tone or their process of HOW to judge tone.

Yet I get called a luddite for having my own individual perspective on the matter... and then I get told not to take offense?

I personally think you make way too much of this. Take things with a grain of salt dude. I hardly think Metaltastic meant this in a disrespectful way, but that's between you and him.

 

[drew_drummer]

And Drew, the point with hearing it in a mix is that the sound by itself is rather vague if you think about it. With nothing to gauge it with, we really DON'T know how it sounds, just how each one sounds against the next file in the shootout. With drums, bass and (if possible) vocals, you can really hear how a tone stacks up.

That's a reasoned and fair thing to state.

Don't get so offended, Marcus didn't mean it nearly as much as you took it, let's all lighten up

~006

I wonder... if I had responded and just said "lol uz fag" or something equally retarded, would people be saying the same thing. He called me a luddite, and I'm calling him on his bullshit.

Anyway... looking forward to the results of this.

 

[drew_drummer]

I personally think you make way too much of this. Take things with a grain of salt dude. I hardly think Metaltastic meant this in a disrespectful way, but that's between you and him.

Yes. Lets play down the insulting comments made by someone of the club... but in many other threads, lets insult those NOT of the club.

 

[mr.L.]

I gave you my opinion. If you want to question my integrity than that's your choice. BTW the results are downloadable so no reason to wait (If only people would do this more often)

 

[mintcheerios]

TOOOOOOOOOOO MANY OPTIONS - honestly, it's kinda hard to really give an objective listen to each when there's just so many files; for future reference, since each had a repeat with an impulse, dividing the files into two mystery folders (on with all the mic'ed files, one with all the impulses) would make it much easier to wrangle. Seriously, I wanna give my opinion, but with this many options I just can't trust myself to stick with a viewpoint when it's just one individual guitar file (not even double tracked, no drums, etc.) If you could divide the files between an "impulse" and "real" folder (marked a + b so it's still blind), that'd really help! Thanks dude!

And I voted you 5 stars btw!

You raised a legitimate concern, so I made a file called partial keys.zip which you can find in my post at recordingreview. It contains 3 text files each telling you some hints. One is the one you requested (impulse vs real cabs), one just flat out tells you the real amp real cab one, and the last one tells you which two use the real amp head.

I rated your shootout 5 stars too! It's actually the reason why there's a Countryman sitting on my bed. The ProRMP is there cause it was the cheapest haha.

 

[Erkan]

How can you judge guitar tones by putting drums and studio trickery in the way?

Because that is how a guitar is listened to ultimately, by the end "user".

Edit: To elaborate on this, think like this. You solo the guitar and go "BAUUUOW! This tone rocks my balls! I'm gonna slam this into a mix now and it's automatically going to be the best goddamn mix in the world". And all of a sudden, half of the snare drum is gone, the bass guitar and that awesome guitar tone are combating each other in some frequencies, and that sawtooth synth's high freqs totally fuck up the guitar's high freqs. So now you've gotta change stuff, and I wouldn't recommend letting the guitars stay 100% intact while you change everything else. Mixing isn't about getting the best guitar sound, it's about getting the best combined sound of all instruments