Eluveitie and DT

stizzleomnibus said:
Holy crap this thread. I have to amend certain statements that I may have made. Eluveitie is an absolutely incredible band, and Everything remains... was an excellent album just like the others, and a great evolution of the sound. I no longer find the Evocation thing to be a silly side project, as the first was actually really good (they've said they're doing a metal one next anyway, but II will be pretty good when it happens).

Also, Eluveitie as a copycat band? Fuck no! Through continuous listening, it is quite clear to me that many elements of this band are unique from a metal standpoint, as well as elements unique to the folk aspect. Their drummer is one of the most interesting and exciting in the genre (I point to The Bloodstained Ground as proof). Some of the texture and dynamic that comes from flutes, being breath-controlled, is completely unique. Further, the folk melodies have a much wider pitch range, with rapid swings that add incredible energy and drama to the music (Setlon, Cauldron of Renascence, and Bloodstained Ground again).

There are even some crafty progressive elements. There's right after the intro to Lugdunon, it switches to 6/4 (on the measure where the intro bleeds out, there are six beats; this continues through the verse). There are two melodies in the verse, one of which is a single 6/4 measure long and repeats four times. The is a much longer, free-form sounding melody of two 6/4 measures which repeats twice. Totally different feel.

In short, I take back everything less-than-stellar I ever said about the band and I will say simply that they are a first-class metal band that belongs in the pantheon of bands such as DT, Amon Amarth, Ensiferum, etc...
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Amen. May I ask, what do you think about Opeth? Since I never heard you talk about them before and I personally think they're quite brilliant (my second favourite, after DT, actually).
 
I tried listening to some Opeth once, and it did not grab me. I can't tell you what I listened to, because it was probably just the first thing that I found on Youtube. As we know, metal bands rarely make videos of their best or most representative songs, so I probably got a bad sampling. Can you tell me what I should listen to first to get a good impression of the band?
 
stizzleomnibus said:
I tried listening to some Opeth once, and it did not grab me. I can't tell you what I listened to, because it was probably just the first thing that I found on Youtube. As we know, metal bands rarely make videos of their best or most representative songs, so I probably got a bad sampling. Can you tell me what I should listen to first to get a good impression of the band?
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Opeth's music is pretty varied. It depends. It's... dense... music. Do you like Porcupine Tree? Their later stuff is very progressive, songs are very long, it's the kind of music the requires many listens to sink in.

Their earlier stuff, like Orchid and Morningrise, was produced by Dan Swano of Edge of Sanity fame. It's a bit more like a sophisticated melodic death metal. If I were to start anywhere, I would go with their most recent album. The journey backwards with that band is quite interesting.

I can tell you Deliverance is by far my least favorite Opeth album. I'm not sure what about it irks me, but it feels like their least creative album. Their most "different" album is Damnation, which is one of my three favorites. Most Opeth fanboys would list Orchid, Still Life or Morningrise as their favorite albums. Mine are Morningrise, Watershed and Damnation.

For a quick listen... I guess listen to Burden (Watershed), To bid you farewell (Morningrise) and Hope leaves (Damnation).

I'm sure Maxim has his own top three. Ghost reveries is also a very good album, it just has one or two... I call them George Harrison songs. It's just the band doing something they thought was cool, but doesn't sound very good to be quite honest. Ahehe.
 
Yeah I've got my own favourites. Indeed, Opeth is a very varied band and not easy to engage with. Naglfar already explained things pretty well there, so I'll just listmy favourites. My favourite albums are Ghost Reveries, Blackwater Park and Still Life. Blackwater Park may be a bit of a cliche though, since that is a bit like the Opeth 'classic' and also their breakthrough album. I have noticed that Ghost Reveries is not popular among Opeth fans. I'd go for the variation in that one, but also the drums. Martin Lopez (also ex-Amon Amarth) puts up some good work there. Still Life just does something for me. There are only a few songs that can give me goosebumps, but the switch from the acoustic breakdown to that brilliant guitar melody in Godhead's Lament is one of them. Another one is found in the solo of Bleak, for me one of most beautiful melodies I have ever heard.

So to list some sings I would advise: Bleak, Blackwater Park (Blackwater Park), Ghost of Perdition, Reverie/Harlequin Forest (Ghost Reveries), Godhead's Lament, The Moor (Still Life). In addition to Burden, I would advise The Lotus Eater from Watershed as well, especially the piano lead in the breakdown is really cool there.
 
Every artist is influenced by what has been done before their time. If not by direct exposure, the information the artist is exposed to through other people, media, etc. influences them. We are all a product of our times and have the benefit of those who have walked similar paths we are now on.
We all borrow because it has all been done before and we are not the originators. To merely copy is to take an existing interpretation and not run away with it. To steal an idea is to take something of value and make it yours. To make an artistic element yours you have to interpret it your way with your own approach.
This cannot be done when you are merely copying the idea. When copying the idea you are just doing everything exactly like it was previously done. When you have done it your way you have used the element and not simply duplicated it.
It is not required that you advance the element. You can go sideways and even backwards with the idea and you can be stealing the element and not copying it. On the contrary, when merely copying the element you have failed if you do not match the original -

:danceboy:
 
the main reason i started listening to eluveitie is because they sounded like a folk metal version of DT. i like them enough though. seeing that video was kind of upsetting, but oh well. i wouldnt think that they did it on purpose. probably just a case of cryptomnesia. it happens a lot when youre writing so many songs and also listening to so many songs made by other bands. i mean, think of how hard it is to write an original breakdown in the hardcore/deathcore scene these days. theyve pretty much all been written lol
 
I apologize in advance for ressurecting this thread and for this relatively off-topic post, but i've been scouring the internet for hours for an answer to this.



I adore both Eluveitie and Blood Stain Child, but I don't really know where to draw the line between "influence" and "cover". I was further disheartened after discovering this post, because i've always heard the DT influence in Eluveitie, but those riffs are TOO similar.
 
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Both Bloodstain Child and Eluveitie borrowed the melody from a japanese folk song, same with Eluveitie's "Luxtos" and Manau's "Mais qui est la belette?" or Eluveitie's "Inis Mona" and Manau's "Tribu de Dana".
It's common for Folk Bands to pick up older folk melodies no one remembers the composer of.
 
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