Engl 2x12- Horizontal or Vertical?

[gorath23]

Ok, I've decided that I don't like my Framus cab for recording, I want something beefier and thicker sounding. I was originally looking at some used Matamp 4x12's but its a bit of an unknown quantity as far as recorded tone goes. So I've narrowed my list down to the Engl Pro 2x12 (my budget is around £400).

Thing is, the Vertical cab is actually larger, its dimensions are 60x75x36 whereas the Horizontal is 75x48x36. How much of a difference do you all think this will make? I'd rather have the Horizontal though as my Fireball will fit on top and not look weird......so ideas?

 

[Metaltastic]

Honestly, last summer I wanted to compromise between tone and weight and thought the Bogner 2x12 would be perfect - but suffice it to say, it definitely was not. So while I have A/B'ed it against a Mesa 2x12 horizontal and thought the Mesa was much better, I'm still planning on just going for a 4x12 (almost certainly a Mesa traditional), cuz I don't wanna take any more chances. I assume you're in Europe, so a Mesa is probably out, but the Engl PRO 4x12 might be a bit more reasonable for you.

 

[Meisterjäger]

If you're buying new, then you might aswell go Engl 4x12 rather than 2x12, because price wise, it's not that much different. If you're spending that kinda cash, though, check out a Blackstar.

Although I HATE to say it, there's an Engl verticle cab on eBay right now. I will be bidding on it, but my budget says I will be stopping at under £200. If you're feelin richer than I, then go for it!

 

[lekteri]

Here's some clips/pics:
http://user.personal.fi/musiikki/liquorworks/demo/
http://user.personal.fi/musiikki/liquorworks/far.jpg
http://user.personal.fi/musiikki/liquorworks/close.jpg

 

[gorath23]

The 4x12 you are all referring too is the Standard with V60's and normal ply not Siberian Birch, the Pro cab goes for £700, so thats out, the Vertical cab on ebay is also a Standard, so V60's again and regular ply. I played a Standard 4x12 with V60's last week, and honestly, I thought it was crap, zero tone.

 

[Meisterjäger]

To be honest mate, I thought the same thing with the Engl cabs.

Blackstar. Honestly.

 

[gorath23]

Hmm, yeah I have heard good things about these... which Engl cabs have you played, any of the Pro range? The main reason I'm looking at Engl is its proven recording record (no pun), both Studio Fredman and Studio Fantom regular use an Engl 4x12, and I'm 99% sure that my favourite recorded tone was an Engl Cab.

Any more info on the Blackstar Cabs, the site is pretty barebones, no info on construction/ dimensions?

EDIT: Damn, I checked the prices on these, £499 for a 4x12.... whats the difference between the Artisan and Series One cabs?

 

[Amberience]

Blackstar amps claim to be british boutique, but are actually manufactured in the far East. I don't know, but I think the cabs are probably also. Don't know if that's going to bother you or not, but just putting it out there.

 

[gorath23]

Blackstar amps claim to be british boutique, but are actually manufactured in the far East. I don't know, but I think the cabs are probably also. Don't know if that's going to bother you or not, but just putting it out there.

Yeah, it still seems to be a bit of an unknown...saying that, £499 for an oversized, birch ply 4x12, handwired with heavy guage wiring, it ticks all the right boxes.

 

[GuitarHack]

..........I'm still planning on just going for a 4x12 (almost certainly a Mesa traditional), cuz I don't wanna take any more chances. .........

I would HIGHLY advise the Oversized over the Traditional. HIGHLY. Did I say HIGHLY enough? Since I got the oversize I had only mic'd it in another room and listened to the mic'd tone which I definitely preferred over the Traditional hands down. Tonight I actually set it up and played in the room alternating between both the 6505 and Rev through it and my god does it sound brilliant. It is what a metal tone should sound like. The Traditional sounded OK, albeit a bit on the fizzy and farty side and a bit middy, well the Oversized blew me away. I tried to record a room tone with the video camera of both amps through it but listening back it was distorting the poor camera's mic, will try again tomorrow with the camera further away.

gorath23, didn't mean to hijack but it is relevant to you as well I guess. A Mesa 4X12 OS may seem a bit expensive in the UK like it is here in Oz ($2000)compared to the US (lucky a-holes) but it's worth it if you are after "something beefier and thicker sounding". That is what this cab is.

/rant

No i don't work for boogie.

 

[Meisterjäger]

Hmm, yeah I have heard good things about these... which Engl cabs have you played, any of the Pro range? The main reason I'm looking at Engl is its proven recording record (no pun), both Studio Fredman and Studio Fantom regular use an Engl 4x12, and I'm 99% sure that my favourite recorded tone was an Engl Cab.

Any more info on the Blackstar Cabs, the site is pretty barebones, no info on construction/ dimensions?

EDIT: Damn, I checked the prices on these, £499 for a 4x12.... whats the difference between the Artisan and Series One cabs?

I've tried both the Standard and Pro Engl 4x12's. Only one I haven't tried is the XXL. Didn't notice a justifiable difference between them. Neither were really very good to my ear, especially compared to the Blackstar.

Blackstar dimensions line up exactly the same as a Mesa Oversized. Honestly, don't be put off by the fact it's so cheap, these things are bargain of the century. You DEFINITELY need to try one before you even think about buying anything else.

EDIT: Difference between the Artisan and Series One cabs is... that they haven't released the Series One yet! They haven't decided what to make them out of, or what speakers to load in them, so the guy at my local shop told me. I got told via email about a year ago that the Series One wouldn't differ from the Artisan. One definite difference would be tolex colour.

 

[Metaltastic]

I would HIGHLY advise the Oversized over the Traditional. HIGHLY. Did I say HIGHLY enough? Since I got the oversize I had only mic'd it in another room and listened to the mic'd tone which I definitely preferred over the Traditional hands down. Tonight I actually set it up and played in the room alternating between both the 6505 and Rev through it and my god does it sound brilliant. It is what a metal tone should sound like. The Traditional sounded OK, albeit a bit on the fizzy and farty side and a bit middy, well the Oversized blew me away. I tried to record a room tone with the video camera of both amps through it but listening back it was distorting the poor camera's mic, will try again tomorrow with the camera further away.

Hahahahaha, we've been over this dude - I certainly don't doubt your experiences, but while I've certainly loved a lot of tones I've heard recorded with the OS, I don't really feel they're the type of tone I'm going for, whereas a the tones of standard sized 4x12 just might be. I mean, so many great tones have been recorded with a standard sized 4x12 (ahem, Marshall), and since the Mesa Traditional is the attempt of a really reputable company to build their take on the Marshall cab, it's what I wanna try out (I am gonna take your advice and get the slant, though). But since there are always bajillions of used OS cabs in great shape for sale at ridiculously cheap prices, I don't have to worry about the possibility of losing money if I change my mind!

 

[gorath23]

I've tried both the Standard and Pro Engl 4x12's. Only one I haven't tried is the XXL. Didn't notice a justifiable difference between them. Neither were really very good to my ear, especially compared to the Blackstar.

Blackstar dimensions line up exactly the same as a Mesa Oversized. Honestly, don't be put off by the fact it's so cheap, these things are bargain of the century. You DEFINITELY need to try one before you even think about buying anything else.

EDIT: Difference between the Artisan and Series One cabs is... that they haven't released the Series One yet! They haven't decided what to make them out of, or what speakers to load in them, so the guy at my local shop told me. I got told via email about a year ago that the Series One wouldn't differ from the Artisan. One definite difference would be tolex colour.

Thanks for the help man, I've just sent an email to Blackstar enquiring about the Series One cab. Hopefully the specs and pricing will be the same as the Artisan cab. Do you have one, and if so, what head do you use with it?

EDIT: Also, which do you recommend, slant or straight? I prefer the looks of Straight cabs, but it may be a little boomy for such a large cab....

 

[Meisterjäger]

I've never tried the Straight Artisan cabs, so can't really vouch for them. At a guess, I'd say similar rule of thumb as straught Mesa cabs, whatever the verdict on them may be. The other guitarist in my band has an angled Artisan, and runs an Engl Invader 100 through it, and his tone is awesome, as you might well imagine. Sounds absolutely huge and I'm the most jealous person in that band right now! Makes me wanna be upgrading very soon, really, and I only just got my Framus Dragon 412. To be honest, I wouldn't hold your breath for the Series One cab, they just don't seem to be making any decisions at all. I'm still kinda waiting for it to be properly announced w/specs an everythin, but the Artisan sounds so good I'm not sure I can wait much longer and run the risk of it being different. I just want a black Artisan! Let me know if you get any fresh news from Blackstar.