Eqing out low end flub on downtuned guitar tracks?

[Robert W]

Lately I've been working a lot w/ LePous sims and have had very good results so long as I stayed tuned to E-C#, but when I try to take it any lower, I start getting a lot of unwanted flub. I've tried adjusting my pick attack and palm mutes accordingly, but the flub continues to be a problem. I've also tried to EQing it out, but the settings needed to do so ended up making the tone sound a little thin and "djenty".

Can anyone spare some advice on how to keep a downtuned guitar sounding a little fuller and less "djenty" w/o having to sacrifice the gain?

 

[P-E]

Newer bigger strings, multiband compression, changing pickup?

 

[Robert W]

Newer bigger strings, multiband compression, changing pickup?

Have new big strings already. Pickup I kind of like. It's a stock Celephus on an Agile 828. I also tried using a 7 string Schecter w/ a BKP ceramic Warpig in the bridge and was still getting more flub than I cared for. As for multiband compression, that is something that's a little out of my league atm, as I have absolutely no experience with that end of the recording process.

 

[P-E]

Try really dialing your tone up from scratch with a Tubescreamer-type boost, real low on drive, tone and level as needed.

If you've got Reaper, you can use reaxcomp as a multiband compressor. (If not, you can still download the ReaPlugs on http://reaper.fm/reaplugs/reaplugs20-install.exe and they're really useful.)

How it works is, the threshold is the level where the sound will be compressed, the ratio defines how much it should be compressed (so its volume lowers - only when needed according to the threshold), the band is where your threshold and compression is active, and that covers pretty much all about it.

You should at least high-pass your tracks to somewhere along the lines of 60hz, and then use a multiband compressor from 60 to anywhere you feel the flub still is.

I hope that helped a bit!

 

[Robert W]

Try really dialing your tone up from scratch with a Tubescreamer-type boost, real low on drive, tone and level as needed.

If you've got Reaper, you can use reaxcomp as a multiband compressor. (If not, you can still download the ReaPlugs on http://reaper.fm/reaplugs/reaplugs20-install.exe and they're really useful.)

How it works is, the threshold is the level where the sound will be compressed, the ratio defines how much it should be compressed (so its volume lowers - only when needed according to the threshold), the band is where your threshold and compression is active, and that covers pretty much all about it.

You should at least high-pass your tracks to somewhere along the lines of 60hz, and then use a multiband compressor from 60 to anywhere you feel the flub still is.

I hope that helped a bit!

Actually, that was immensely helpful, as I do use Reaper.

My FX chain is pretty simple, TS>Amp(LePou LIGION or 456)> IRs (Recabinet). I've been high passing at about 100-150 and low passing at 8K. I tweak a little at 400, 1.5-2.5, and 3K as needed, usually no more than 2dB at the most. TS is usually set w/ the drive at zero and the gain at around 10-15. If I go any higher, I start to get too much hiss. The problem I've having is that the compromise tone I've been getting is, like I said, a little too thin and "djenty" sounding for my personal taste.

I'll definitely be giving that multiband compressor a shot.

 

[ahjteam]

You might want to try out the BBE Sonic Stomp pedal. They also make a plugin version of it.

 

[P-E]

^ Not sure you really want that. I've always heard the sonic maximizer (and the sonic stomp as it emulates the same effect) is to avoid to fuckery when recording/mixing and should be used for live use only.

I might be wrong though, and it can never hurt to experiment.

 

[ahjteam]

^ Not sure you really want that. I've always heard the sonic maximizer (and the sonic stomp as it emulates the same effect) is to avoid to fuckery when recording/mixing and should be used for live use only.

I might be wrong though, and it can never hurt to experiment.

You don't need to use it for the maximizer effect, but to tame the low end. The unit itself makes some phase shift thing similiar to the Waves Rvox that makes it really mid focused (like guitars should be) and the knobs are basically +12dB @ 50Hz and +12dB @ 10kHz eq controls.

 

[Salvation 13]

Not necessarily what you're after, but I usually cut a lot of 250-350 Hz from downtuned guitars (on top of a high pass around 100 Hz). Give it a shot.

 

[fps]

Not necessarily what you're after, but I usually cut a lot of 250-350 Hz from downtuned guitars (on top of a high pass around 100 Hz). Give it a shot.

yeah this. better to eq it out and keep it simple. a lotta that flub isn't attached to anything worth keeping sound-wise.

 

[muckypup1]

I'm getting flub lol, what multi band compressor would you dudes recommend? I don't want some free piece of crap, just recommend something decent that would sound good please I need to get 3 songs mixed and finished this week, and i have no multi band compressor plugins

 

[Robert W]

As I'd mentioned, I'd been using mostly LePous high gain stuff, which I found to work fantastic for stuff in the E-C# range, but not so good, for me at least, when tuned to A standard.

I tried the reacomp compressor P-E recommended and it helped, but the FX chains I was using just had this fundamental flaw in them that no amount of EQing was going to overcome without turning the tone into something pretty unlistenable. So I ditched the high gain LePous for their HyBrit sim, and that, ultimately, did the trick. Combined w/ a ReCabinet Tangerine(Orange IR) w/ a 121 and U87 mic, I got a nice "vintage" tone that sounds great for regular and low tunings. Which is kind of weird, in that whenever I got a good sounding tone tuned to E, it would turn into a flubby wooffest when I started hitting the B string.

As for cutting at 250-350, I'm going to give that a shot now.

@Muckypup1: I know you expressly said you didn't want to use any "free" comps, but check out the reacomp. I worked pretty well for me.

 

[MetalSound]

I'm getting flub lol, what multi band compressor would you dudes recommend?

nearly everyone here would say waves c4 i guess. it is inded a really good mb. if you have a uad card the precision mb is also very useful but its big latency sucks.

 

[006]

Just personal taste here but that BBE and MXR clip sounded so bad uke: If anything, I definitely will go nowhere near the BBE now more than before.

 

[DanLights]

Reaxcomp is free but it ain´t crap, it´s the best you can get if you don´t wanna pirate some waves plugs (we all know your age and your budget sonny, you won´t and shouldn´t spend huge amounts of cash on plugins)

 

[cloy26]

Fucking bbe is a joke. All it does is scoop your mids.

 

[shred101]

Buy a TS7

 

[Jordon]

People are going to look at me weird for this one but here we go.

As was mentioned, a tubescreamer will help you out, as will properly EQ'ing the guitars post-tracking.

I will say that less low end and less gain while you're tracking the parts is key with low-tuned guitars. I've been playing in B, A# and G# for nearly a decade now, and I find that when you tune low, you almost have to approach setting up an amp in a totally different way. You almost need to leave even more room for the bass, if that makes any sense. I think that's why it's common to see low-tuned guitars HP'd higher than standard-tuned guitars.

Just my own $0.02, and I'm sorry if this is no-brainer stuff.

 

[Robert W]

People are going to look at me weird for this one but here we go.

As was mentioned, a tubescreamer will help you out, as will properly EQ'ing the guitars post-tracking.

I will say that less low end and less gain while you're tracking the parts is key with low-tuned guitars. I've been playing in B, A# and G# for nearly a decade now, and I find that when you tune low, you almost have to approach setting up an amp in a totally different way. You almost need to leave even more room for the bass, if that makes any sense. I think that's why it's common to see low-tuned guitars HP'd higher than standard-tuned guitars.

Just my own $0.02, and I'm sorry if this is no-brainer stuff.

I wouldn't say you "almost" have to approach setting up an amp in a different, I'd say you absolutely have to.

Right now I'm HPing at 100 and using a compressor to cut out the 250-350 range. This has been tremendously healpful. As for backing off on the gain, I found that I really didin't have too, but then again I'm using the LePous Hibrit sim and that really isn't a high gain type of sim to begin with.

A tube screamer is a must though. I actually use two in my chain now. One for shaping and definition and the other just to dampen hiss.

Also, speaker selection seems to play a somewhat bigger role in keeping things tight when downtuned then it does when tuned to or around E standard.

Right now I'm tuned to E, A, D, G, C, F, A, D and am not getting anymore flub, so I'm a pretty happy camper atm.

Here's a quick tone test I did using the HiBrit sim and ReCabinet IRs. Think I may have rolled back on the tone a little too much, but won't know until I start recording w/ it w/ a bass. Anyways, here are a couple riffs from Sabbath's Ironman,

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1115633

 

[MetalSound]

A tube screamer is a must though.

I don´t think so. There are a lot of good productions done without one. Although it is nice to have one it is definately not a must. It only seems to be a must in this forum (like using 5150, rectifier, emg 81, etc.).