Ethnography on Metal Listeners! Short and interesting!

[waif]

A musical aesthetic perhaps? i.e. the general feel of the music as a result of recording and production techniques as well as the music itself? That's how I use the word aesthetic when referring to music.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i've been drinking give me a break limits for what can be metal in sound means limits for what metal can be in theme, is what i basically meant.

 

[Rumpole]

- True/false section

1. Are you over the age of 25?
Your answer: no

2. When you first heard metal music did you like it right away?
Your answer: no

3. Would you want metal music to go mainstream?
Your answer: no


- Multiple choice section

1. What do you like most about metal music?
A. Lyrics
B. Themes/feelings/emotions
C. The energy/speed of it
D. It provides an escape from life
E. It's just something different
Your answer: B. Themes/feelings/emotions. Although if it was a write in answer, I would say the music itself.

2. What theme/feeling/emotion do you like most in metal music?
A. Rebellion
B. Loneliness
C. Fear
D. Anger
E. Other (please type):
Your answer: E. Other - Awesomeness

3. What is your level of education?
A. High school and under
B. Some college
C. Bachelor's degree
D. Master's degree
E. Doctorate degree
Your answer: C. Bachelor's degree (with honours)


- Free answer section

1. List your 3 most favorite kinds of music other than metal.
Your answer: Mostly rock and it's variants, some types of electronic music and the odd bit of pop. But I basically listen to 99% heavy metal.

2. List 3 of your hobbies other than music.
Your answer: Cycling, art and sleeping.

3. How does metal music influence other parts of your life?
Your answer: It doesn't influence my life in the sense that I do certain things, or behave in certain ways because of listening to it. I simply enjoy listening to it, finding new bands and collecting albums.

 

[Death Aflame]

1. Are you over the age of 25?
Your answer: No

2. When you first heard metal music did you like it right away?
Your answer: No

3. Would you want metal music to go mainstream?
Your answer: No


- Multiple choice section

1. What do you like most about metal music?

Your answer: B. Themes/feelings/emotions

2. What theme/feeling/emotion do you like most in metal music?
Your answer: A. Rebellion

3. What is your level of education?
Your answer: C. Bachelor's degree, well I am graduating in 2009.


- Free answer section

1. List your 3 most favorite kinds of music other than metal.
Your answer:

'Serious music' (classical/romantic/baroque/modernist)
Shoegaze
Post/Prog Rock

2. List 3 of your hobbies other than music.
Your answer:

Anarchism
Videogames
Reading

3. How does metal music influence other parts of your life?
Your answer:

Not much. I don't know too many other intelligent 'fellow travelers' so I tend not to associate myself with them or the culture in general [save for an online community like this]. Not too long ago I wrote a few metal songs of my own, but it never evolved into anything serious.

Very rarely does a metal band's lyrics or political stance influence me, since most of it is a load of meaningless bullshit that fails to provoke thought about our current situation in a broader sense than simply denouncing Christianity for the hundred thousandth time.

 

[Death Aflame]

yeah but what i meant is that aesthetic is theme in aural form, and so a limited aesthetic means limited thematic scope.

Then how would you explain away Christian Black Metal? Aesthetically shit like Antestor is quite similar to a more modern Dissection, but thematically it is its opposite.

Certain music aesthetics may evolve out of a particular political context and thus initially the theme may be tied to the aesthetic/form/genre inherently, but clearly the two can be divorced, for better or worse and as such aesthetic or form can be similar across diverging thematic agendas of various works.

If we were to use an analogy, compare the message of something like Godard's Weekend (radical, 1960s Marxist art cinema) to Fight Club. Both make use of similar aesthetic tropes (derived from Brechtian theories of Epic Theatre) but clearly both are espousing almost entirely oppositional messages.

 

[TheInsane]

Survey begins here:


- True/false section

1. Are you over the age of 25?
Your answer: True

2. When you first heard metal music did you like it right away?
Your answer: True

3. Would you want metal music to go mainstream?
Your answer: Doesnt matter as long as its good however being trendy often means being watered down whih is bad.


- Multiple choice section

1. What do you like most about metal music?
A. Lyrics
B. Themes/feelings/emotions
C. The energy/speed of it
D. It provides an escape from life
E. It's just something different
Your answer: Emotions. Not alot of music can produce the same kind of emotion for me as metal does.

2. What theme/feeling/emotion do you like most in metal music?
A. Rebellion
B. Loneliness
C. Fear
D. Anger
E. Other (please type):
Your answer: I want to say A, B and D here. I settle with A since that in a way incorporates B and D as well. Its the loneliness of being outside something revolting against it. And the revolt itself is oftentimes of an angry kind

3. What is your level of education?
A. High school and under
B. Some college
C. Bachelor's degree
D. Master's degree
E. Doctorate degree
Your answer: Some college.


- Free answer section

1. List your 3 most favorite kinds of music other than metal.
Your answer: Country, Pop and Folk

2. List 3 of your hobbies other than music.
Your answer: Philosophy, religious metaphysics and pro-wrestling

3. How does metal music influence other parts of your life?
Your answer: It has to do with my sense of fashion. I dress like a metal head more or less. My hair is long. I also think my view on life is the effect of certain metal lyrics (allthough they are alot refined of course).

 

[Vossyrus]

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I think that's a little too romantic but OK.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Then how would you explain away Christian Black Metal? Aesthetically shit like Antestor is quite similar to a more modern Dissection, but thematically it is its opposite.

no that's the thing, christian black metal is confused because the sound is thematically in conflict with the lyrics/cover art/song titles/etc. particular structures of sound are given thematic meaning historically which cannot simply be applied towards some conflicting purpose on a whim. the sound of beherit simply has no relation to fluffy bunnies, no matter whether you named all the songs 'bunny in paradise', 'fluffy eats a carrot' etc and glossed up the cover art with pics of rabbits. such an album would only be consistent if it was making some kind of ironic statement.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I'm still not seeing why Christian themes are inherently incompatible with the black metal sound, and always produce something inferior necessarily just because they're Christian. This seems like a problem we should get past, not something to get stuck on. I mean, I think Christians aping the 2nd wave sound is kind of...lame and ineffectual, but I don't think it objectively makes the art more vulnerable to real criticism outside of "well, it's ironic, because black metal is anti-Christian and these guys aren't!" Like I said, I think this is something we as modern listeners of black metal and modern historical analyzers of said genre get hung up on because it seems "wrong" when most likely it's just our limited scope that isn't letting us understand the big picture.

 

[Vossyrus]

Black metal with Christian themes/lyrics is still black metal. Black metal with no lyrics or vocals is still black metal.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I'll point to the new Krallice album as BM which doesn't really seem to have any themes on either side of the spectrum.

 

[no country for old wainds]

I'm still not seeing why Christian themes are inherently incompatible with the black metal sound, and always produce something inferior necessarily just because they're Christian. This seems like a problem we should get past, not something to get stuck on. I mean, I think Christians aping the 2nd wave sound is kind of...lame and ineffectual, but I don't think it objectively makes the art more vulnerable to real criticism outside of "well, it's ironic, because black metal is anti-Christian and these guys aren't!" Like I said, I think this is something we as modern listeners of black metal and modern historical analyzers of said genre get hung up on because it seems "wrong" when most likely it's just our limited scope that isn't letting us understand the big picture.

i'm willing to accept the possibility that the black metal sound (as in the spectrum of sound/mood/feel widely identified as black metal) needn't be inherently anti-christian, at least for the sake of this argument.

what i find nonsensical is the idea that there's no limit to the thematic basis which can constitute the black metal sound. people talk about theme and sound as though they are two separate entities put together - for me they are one entity, every album which evokes a slightly different music experience is slightly different thematically. in defining a genre you put boundaries around it, and if a genre is defined primarily by sound then you are putting boundaries around its sound - if sound is an aural embodiment of conceptual idea as i'm claiming, there are limits to what spectrum of conceptual ideas can constitute the black metal sound.

when people say 'that set of themes has been poorly expressed', what they actually mean is that there are conflicting themes within this work.

if someone said to me 'an album about flowers and love is still death metal if it sounds like death metal', i would essentially hear that as 'an album about flowers and love is still not about flowers and love if it sounds like it's not about flowers and love'. bit confusing for the band to have implied otherwise, then.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Have you heard Lykathea Aflame? This is death metal about flowers and love. It is unmistakably death metal.

 

[Vossyrus]

i'm willing to accept the possibility that the black metal sound (as in the spectrum of sound/mood/feel widely identified as black metal) needn't be inherently anti-christian, at least for the sake of this argument.

what i find nonsensical is the idea that there's no limit to the thematic basis which can constitute the black metal sound. people talk about theme and sound as though they are two separate entities put together - for me they are one entity, every album which evokes a slightly different music experience is slightly different thematically. in defining a genre you put boundaries around it, and if a genre is defined primarily by sound then you are putting boundaries around its sound - if sound is an aural embodiment of conceptual idea as i'm claiming, there are limits to what spectrum of conceptual ideas can constitute the black metal sound.

when people say 'that set of themes has been poorly expressed', what they actually mean is that there are conflicting themes within this work.

if someone said to me 'an album about flowers and love is still death metal if it sounds like death metal', i would essentially hear that as 'an album about flowers and love is still not about flowers and love if it sounds like it's not about flowers and love'. bit confusing for the band to have implied otherwise, then.

Your choice of words in your posts is absolutely amusing. :Smug:

Black metal is a style of music just like any other, it isn't "special" and it isn't some divine musical artform with profound depth and meaning. All of this black metal essence, spirit and whatever else is all just interpretation and expression.

Black metal is black metal whether it's about Satanism, Christianity, trolls, flowers or some make-believe winter wonderland (yes, that's you Immortal). If you listen to a black metal album with themes/lyrical content written in a foreign language that you don't understand, how are you to know if the album isn't about flowers and rainbows?

 

[DarkPilgrim]

1. Are you over the age of 25?
Your answer: yes

2. When you first heard metal music did you like it right away?
Your answer: yes

3. Would you want metal music to go mainstream?
Your answer: definitively NO


- Multiple choice section

1. What do you like most about metal music?
A. Lyrics
B. Themes/feelings/emotions
C. The energy/speed of it
D. It provides an escape from life
E. It's just something different
Your answer: a,b,c

2. What theme/feeling/emotion do you like most in metal music?
A. Rebellion
B. Loneliness
C. Fear
D. Anger
E. Other (please type):
Your answer: b,c,d.

3. What is your level of education?
A. High school and under
B. Some college
C. Bachelor's degree
D. Master's degree
E. Doctorate degree
Your answer: C


- Free answer section

1. List your 3 most favorite kinds of music other than metal.
Your answer: ambient, punk, folk

2. List 3 of your hobbies other than music.
Your answer: mountaneering, languages, pool/snooker

3. How does metal music influence other parts of your life?
Your answer: It's always present in all aspects of my life and personality.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Have you heard Lykathea Aflame? This is death metal about flowers and love. It is unmistakably death metal.

Black metal is a style of music just like any other, it isn't "special" and it isn't some divine musical artform with profound depth and meaning. All of this black metal essence, spirit and whatever else is all just interpretation and expression.

music is a language, from beethoven to mariah carey. just as the word 'red' means something slightly different to the word 'crimson', every slightly different organisation of sound has slightly different meaning. in categorising genres we put boundaries around a particular structure of sound/meaning - i grant that these boundaries can be bent and expanded (as lykathea aflame did, i grant ye), but not broken, they are always built upon some sort of foundational core of meaning. obviously this is the case, otherwise every sound-structure would be death metal.

if VVVVV is right about lykathea aflame (and yeah you probably are) then that just shows that this particular form of 'flowers and love' is contained within the death metal sound-structure. the thematic basis for a genre defined by sound simply cannot be unlimited, otherwise as i said above, everything would be death metal. why are radiohead not death metal? because they don't sound like death metal. why don't they sound like death metal? because they are thematically grounded far outside of the spectrum of themes which manifest as the death metal sound. you might offer the possibility of 'expressing radiohead's themes in a death metal form', but if as i claimed above there's no distinction between form and content, changing the form would change the content. it would not longer be the same thematically.

i'm sure the fact i'm struggling so much to explain this means it may well be nonsensical or based on faulty assumptions. tell me which part of this you guys disagree with, so i can focus on it.

 

[Death Aflame]

what i find nonsensical is the idea that there's no limit to the thematic basis which can constitute the black metal sound. people talk about theme and sound as though they are two separate entities put together - for me they are one entity, every album which evokes a slightly different music experience is slightly different thematically. in defining a genre you put boundaries around it, and if a genre is defined primarily by sound then you are putting boundaries around its sound - if sound is an aural embodiment of conceptual idea as i'm claiming, there are limits to what spectrum of conceptual ideas can constitute the black metal sound.

Welcome to the postmodern era, boundaries, genres, styles etc. are imploding and fusing together.

Further to the point, you seem to be inferring that black metal had particularly unified thematic past, but then how would explain NSBM? Politically in many ways it is quite oppositional to the calls for individual freedom, since it romanticizes an oppressive state apparatus--the complete opposite of liberty, freedom etc.

I think trying to pin black metal down as a coherent movement is short sighted, as it forgets the dissenting voices that also occupy that genre and style.

Sure, at one point it may have been a homogenous movement, but clearly there has been a longer history of conflicting ideologies, now, than any so-called 'pure' past of black metal.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Imagine you're an intelligent, creative, alienated kid (which could essentially describe most metal artists of consequence when they developed their key works) who looks out at a world full of hopeless, stupid mediocrities shuffling through life and cowering in fear of death. You're bright enough to realize that it doesn't have to be this way, that there's more to the good life than a dreary cubicle job, shopping malls and enough money for the matching mother-daughter boob job/botox package, but the morons around you marginalize you (ostensibly because you're "weird" or "antisocial," but actually because there's nothing the herd hates more than someone who reminds its members of their own insignificance and cowardice).

Yes, usually people who are left out of groups are either too weak or too strong and propose a threat to those who compose the group. This is where you choose to walk your own path... or throw yourself in the gutter and live a piss poor life 'cause no one understood you.

But, if you're like most, you'll probably find yourself adrift without much to anchor you. If you've been good at what you do, somewhere along the way you found that you could make a living - maybe not a king's ransom, but at least enough to get by - without having to work in a goddamn cubicle. More importantly, along the way, you gained recognition. Maybe not "fame" as the real celebrities enjoy, but a certain notoriety. A substantial group of people, all over the world, who appreciate what you do. Who validate your art, and, by extension, your existence. Maybe even a reasonably disease free girl or two who wants to suck your dick just because you're in the band. Heady stuff indeed, for an outcast. Intoxicating, actually.

And subtly, your motivations start to shift. It's no longer so much about saying something. It's not really about the art. It's about the craft. The calculation. But really, it's about staying in the game so you can get your fix. You've sold out, and you don't even know it yet.

Artists meet temptation, or at least that's how I see it. This is where we get to see who is the real artist; who is creating art and who is simply jumping on the bandwagon just to get a buck.

Creating art can be a painful process, just ask Dante or Deathspell Omega. Still, mainstream success shouldn't necessarily mean compromise on the artists' part. It is just that this day and age, the masses choose to accept music that is more adept to simple-minded and easy lifestyles... or shall we say? fun music. Maybe... just maybe? if we lived in an alternate time where the masses preferred more substantial music, we could see real artists having mainstream success.

It is but wishful thinking... this dilemma reflects our preference over the shallow rather than the deep.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Welcome to the postmodern era, boundaries, genres, styles etc. are imploding and fusing together.

sure but if we take that to its conclusion then nothing would mean anything and you wouldn't even be talking.

Further to the point, you seem to be inferring that black metal had particularly unified thematic past, but then how would explain NSBM? Politically in many ways it is quite oppositional to the calls for individual freedom, since it romanticizes an oppressive state apparatus--the complete opposite of liberty, freedom etc.

I think trying to pin black metal down as a coherent movement is short sighted, as it forgets the dissenting voices that also occupy that genre and style.

Sure, at one point it may have been a homogenous movement, but clearly there has been a longer history of conflicting ideologies, now, than any so-called 'pure' past of black metal.

nsbm would be another example of lyrics/cover art/band name/interviews not being reflected by the sound of the music itself, certainly for the most part. my point isn't that most of these bands aren't black metal, but that their sound doesn't reflect the NS they otherwise espouse. i'm not ruling out the possibility that NS can be black metal in sound, but that's a separate debate.