European Union erasing British culture?

[fah-q]

Is your country's culture being affected by the formation of the European Union?
This week, my first line manager at work(Paul) came back from England. We sat down and had a nice chat about England and it's similarities and difference with America. Knowing that Paul spent the first 25 years of his life in England, I naturally asked him if he missed home. Immediately, Paul went on and on about the European Union and how it was erasing his English heritage. He told me a story about trying to find a restaurant in his home town (forget the name) to find fish and chips. He searched and searched but all of the old cafe's (as he called them) have been replaced by Indian restaurants. He blames the European Union because it basically has left England, and all other participating countries, borderless. People are free to travel from country to country without the burden of passports, visas etc. Paul believes that the influx of persons not born in England are erasing its culture.
Personally, I know little about England and even less about The EU. I may be splitting hairs but..Where I come from, if a restaurant closes down in my neighborhood, I generally think it is due to shitty food. I do agree though, that an influx of immigrants does change the cultural topography of a region.
Is the EU bad for Europe? Could those of you living in Europe be desensitized to the whole thing because you have been there and the changes have been gradual? I know that Russians born into Communism were less up-in-arms about it than the generation before them that experienced the shift.
I appreciate any and all input.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Is your country's culture being affected by the formation of the European Union?
This week, my first line manager at work(Paul) came back from England. We sat down and had a nice chat about England and it's similarities and difference with America. Knowing that Paul spent the first 25 years of his life in England, I naturally asked him if he missed home. Immediately, Paul went on and on about the European Union and how it was erasing his English heritage. He told me a story about trying to find a restaurant in his home town (forget the name) to find fish and chips. He searched and searched but all of the old cafe's (as he called them) have been replaced by Indian restaurants. He blames the European Union because it basically has left England, and all other participating countries, borderless. People are free to travel from country to country without the burden of passports, visas etc. Paul believes that the influx of persons not born in England are erasing its culture.
Personally, I know little about England and even less about The EU. I may be splitting hairs but..Where I come from, if a restaurant closes down in my neighborhood, I generally think it is due to shitty food. I do agree though, that an influx of immigrants does change the cultural topography of a region.
Is the EU bad for Europe? Could those of you living in Europe be desensitized to the whole thing because you have been there and the changes have been gradual? I know that Russians born into Communism were less up-in-arms about it than the generation before them that experienced the shift.
I appreciate any and all input.

Well we do still need passports to go between countries in Europe. They haven't abolished this yet.

Somehow millions of illegal immigrants still get here. Mostly with falsified passports.

This last week or so one of the main topics in the news has been the fact that we have had an influx of one million eastern europeans into the UK in the last 2 years. We were overcrowded to begin with and these people are set to be absorbed into our country and their slav genes to permeate those of the British people. It is because of European union rules that Britain ended up taking all these foreigners from Eastern Europe in - and many more will continue to flood in. Meanwhile the eastern European countries suffer from their best workers leaving them, and they have an influx of asians into their countries.
One other consequence of all this is that the British National Health Service, which used to be upheld as a shining model to be aspired to, seems doomed to collapse and be replaced by a similar system to that in the US.

We are told that we benefit from immigration because these people do jobs that the British don't want to do and for lower wages. That's the same thing that is said in the US about the Mexican migrants. In fact it is their presence that drives wages down and keeps them down. There are unemployed people who would do these jobs. The only remotely valid excuse is that the birth rate is too low in Britain - after all, were it higher there would be less room for immigrants.

Britain's ethnic minorities are growing at 15 times the rate of the white population, newly-published research shows.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1556901.stm

The US has a big say in European Union policy. It is the US that particularly wants Turkey to be a member. Turkey would then account for 20% of the EU population, and they would immediately go to the countries that could offer them the most preferable standard of living. The idea is horrifying. Don't forget that most Turks are Muslims too.

This is not directly to do with the EU, but how does this situation get allowed:

Last year, police estimated that up to 75% of women working in brothels across the UK were either from Albania or were Kosovan Albanians, and that the vast majority were controlled by the Albanian mafia.

http://resistance.chiffonrouge.org/article.php3?id_article=66

I am convinced that the government is allowing this. 70% of saunas and massage parlours are controlled by the Albanian mafia in London. These places could easily be shut down and kept shut if there was a will to do it.

With further ethnic mixing, there will be more mafia control and none of us will be safe from it. Our country will become as bad to live in, or worse than, those countries these people have come here to escape from. How pleasant a country is can only be a reflection of the kind of people who live there.

 

[fah-q]

Well we do still need passports to go between countries in Europe. They haven't abolished this yet.

Somehow millions of illegal immigrants still get here. Mostly with falsified passports.

This last week or so one of the main topics in the news has been the fact that we have had an influx of one million eastern europeans into the UK in the last 2 years. We were overcrowded to begin with and these people are set to be absorbed into our country and their slav genes to permeate those of the British people. Can you really say they are permeating your genes if the recipient is willing?It is because of European union rules that Britain ended up taking all these foreigners from Eastern Europe in - and many more will continue to flood in. Meanwhile the eastern European countries suffer from their best workers leaving them, and they have an influx of asians into their countries. Where are the best workers going? I mean, in America, there is little skilled labor that is being taken away from Americans by illegals.
One other consequence of all this is that the British National Health Service, which used to be upheld as a shining model to be aspired to, seems doomed to collapse and be replaced by a similar system to that in the US. You have national health care? I am pefectly happy with the system we have in the US. Except when natural born citizens are denied health care while illegal immigrants are given free healthcare.

We are told that we benefit from immigration because these people do jobs that the British don't want to do and for lower wages. That's the same thing that is said in the US about the Mexican migrants. In fact it is their presence that drives wages down and keeps them down. There are unemployed people who would do these jobs. The only remotely valid excuse is that the birth rate is too low in Britain - after all, were it higher there would be less room for immigrants. I don't think that it is as easy as raising the birthrate in England. Whether there is room or not, people will try to go to where they think the grass is greener.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1556901.stm

The US has a big say in European Union policy. It is the US that particularly wants Turkey to be a member. Turkey would then account for 20% of the EU population, and they would immediately go to the countries that could offer them the most preferable standard of living. The idea is horrifying. Don't forget that most Turks are Muslims too. Muslims don't scare me. Muslim extremists do.

This is not directly to do with the EU, but how does this situation get allowed:

http://resistance.chiffonrouge.org/article.php3?id_article=66

I am convinced that the government is allowing this. 70% of saunas and massage parlours are controlled by the Albanian mafia in London. These places could easily be shut down and kept shut if there was a will to do it.

With further ethnic mixing, there will be more mafia control and none of us will be safe from it. Our country will become as bad to live in, or worse than, those countries these people have come here to escape from. How pleasant a country is can only be a reflection of the kind of people who live there.

It is your belief that the mixing of races is going to fortify the mafia? I don't agree with that but, I do agree that if your country continues to take in everyone, it will have a negative affect on your country.

 

[derek]

Intake figures for immigrants from newly inducted EU countries since the early years of this decade are something like 500% above expectation.

I don't agree that intaking different cultures and peoples necessarily spells disaster, but such unwarranted numbers will eventually end in chaos, for sure.

I'm still unconvinced multiculturalism is a complete failure. I'm more ready to believe that the innate natures of our species are more responsible than the variances in colour and creed for many of the problems western countries face today.

 

[fah-q]

This is the first I am hearing of multiculteralism being criticised. In America, racial harmony is shoved down our throats. If you aren't 100% behind it, you are labeled a bigot. Where do I go outside of the mainstream to read on this?

 

[derek]

This forum has some frequent visitors who cannot get enough of multiculturalist criticism, give me a few seconds to find the threads.

Edit, ok here we go:

One

Two

Three

These are three that cover the topic. They are of slightly varying quality. If you search this forum (feature available near top of forum page) and type in multiculturalism, you will find more threads that cover the subject matter.

Also, If Infoterror would be good enough to visit this thread, he is more qualified than I to outline some good books/websites for this sorta thing.

 

[fah-q]

I appreciate your taking the time to bookmark those 3. I ran through them quickly and I am still trying to digest it. I am probably going to have to read it all again. I do like that I am able to read both sides of the issue, almost simultaneously The definitions given by infoterror are exemplary.
Thanks again.

 

[derek]

No worries.

 

[veil the sky]

This forum has some frequent visitors who cannot get enough of multiculturalist criticism, give me a few seconds to find the threads.

Edit, ok here we go:

One

Two

Three

These are three that cover the topic. They are of slightly varying quality. If you search this forum (feature available near top of forum page) and type in multiculturalism, you will find more threads that cover the subject matter.

Also, If Infoterror would be good enough to visit this thread, he is more qualified than I to outline some good books/websites for this sorta thing.

whoa! this place has missed me.

the case against multiculturalism is my personal favourite.

your english friend has made quite a serious error in saying that the presence of indian restaurants is a sign of the EU eroding British national identity.

1. india isn't in the EU... obviosly

2. india and indians is inextricably linked with british culture and heritage as it was laregely developed as a crucial part of the british empire!

3. what we call 'indian food' is actually largely british in origin, since british forces and ex-patriots in india used the spices and recipes to cover the fact that the meat was mostly horrible! and it was the british presence that brough this kind of food to the indigenous indians.

 

[Norsemaiden]

whoa! this place has missed me.

the case against multiculturalism is my personal favourite.

your english friend has made quite a serious error in saying that the presence of indian restaurants is a sign of the EU eroding British national identity.

1. india isn't in the EU... obviosly

2. india and indians is inextricably linked with british culture and heritage as it was laregely developed as a crucial part of the british empire!

3. what we call 'indian food' is actually largely british in origin, since british forces and ex-patriots in india used the spices and recipes to cover the fact that the meat was mostly horrible! and it was the british presence that brough this kind of food to the indigenous indians.

Good point! I have also heard that the British invented curry

And a British person invented using chilli in a similar way - so Mexican food is really British! (There is more evidence for this than for the curry idea).

It is curious how the British are told that we must accept immigrants from former colonies of the Empire as a sort of consequence of having "oppressed" them (although many Indians really wish we had stayed).
All the European nations that had Empires have this accusation shoved at them, and yet what, in that case, has Sweden done to deserve the invasion of so many immigrants that they have at least as high a proportion as does Britian? Plainly it has nothing to do with Empire and much more to do with the stupid humanist obsession of taking in people from nations that are lousy - instead of going over there, and forcing the countries to BEHAVE!!! We all have to sink together.

 

[fah-q]

Good point! I have also heard that the British invented curry

And a British person invented using chilli in a similar way - so Mexican food is really British! (There is more evidence for this than for the curry idea).

It is curious how the British are told that we must accept immigrants from former colonies of the Empire as a sort of consequence of having "oppressed" them (although many Indians really wish we had stayed).
QUOTE]-It's called reparations in the states. I wonder if they will have the English equivalent of affirmative action soon?

 

[SoundMaster]

On a side topic, a co-worker actually attempted to make the case that the Europeans' arrival on North America was 'pre-ordained by God' and that the decimation/extermination of native populations was 'God's will'.
comical...

 

[fah-q]

On a side topic, a co-worker actually attempted to make the case that the Europeans' arrival on North America was 'pre-ordained by God' and that the decimation/extermination of native populations was 'God's will'.
comical...

Why is god's will in regards to a Christian god not looked at objectively? As I have seen in previous posts. God's will or actions taken under that guise in regards to Muslims seems to be viewed objectively. I am not saying that either is right or wrong. It would just seem as if faith-based actions are more widely accepted when they are performed by anyone other than a Christian.
I assure you, I am not trying to be abrasive or cause trouble. I ask only to gain understanding...

 

[veil the sky]

not relevant to this thread. find another one for that...

there really is no analogy between colonial immigration in the UK and reparations paid in the US. the former are a natural consequence of social evolution, and the latter is a political utility.

colonial immigrants have a far more immediate and plausible case for citizenship, simply because when one nation takes another as part of it's empire, they go under a social fusion. when being indian is identified with being british, then both cultures undergo a certain amount of assimilation.

the case with indian immigrants is analogous to that of the original british union between england, scotland, wales and ireland. nobody would question that a scotsman, welshman or irishman has a claim to live in england, or vice versa. the reason is that we have closely linked cultures by way of social union and being under the flag of one empire.

 

[cryosteel]

We are told that we benefit from immigration because these people do jobs that the British don't want to do and for lower wages. That's the same thing that is said in the US about the Mexican migrants.

That has gotten to be a familiar theme. Claims of 'benefits' have yet to materialise in any substantive manner for the whole of society. At best a tradeoff has taken place where costly social services buckle under the impact of many extra people, in exchange for cheap labor producing cheap junk for everyone to buy and throw away. Cui bono?

England appears set to become a gateway between the EU and the coming North American Union. The possibility of an EU-AU mega superstate later this century seems predictable. People are to be regarded as mere commodities to be shuffled about chasing temporary jobs and cheapest available housing all their lives. This is the neoliberal fantasy in action: the destruction of heritage, mass equality of people resembling interchangeable machine parts, the centralization of all control, the eradication of historic tradition, trendy disposable plastic junk culture, the loss of land a family may call their own home. Globalization forces dysgenic dystopia on all and you may not choose another way.

 

[Silver Incubus]

this may or may not be relevent to this disscussion but there are already plans in action to create an North American Union(Mexico, USA, Canada), and the construction of the NAFTA super highways has already started.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15497

The only benefit is for those who expoit workers, and the results of lack immigration policys will destroy the eco balance of countries with the greater influx of people.

 

[veil the sky]

oh don't worry there's no danger of discussion in here. just people posting isolated opinions with varying degrees of relevance to the thread topic.

 

[fah-q]

oh don't worry there's no danger of discussion in here. just people posting isolated opinions with varying degrees of relevance to the thread topic.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was concerned that a discussion might break out.

 

[derek]

oh don't worry there's no danger of discussion in here. just people posting isolated opinions with varying degrees of relevance to the thread topic.

Which is pretty much what people do in any given situation.

The oft quoted "not so much listening as waiting for their turn to speak" comes to mind.

Although, this forum does have its fair share of dynamic, cascading discussion.

Now and again.

 

[veil the sky]

shame i've missed both the now and the then. point me in the right direction if you would.