Expanders

I don't use expanders at all and use gates quite rarely.

do you find the position of the expander in the effect chain makes a big difference? I would imagine it sounds quite different before or after compression.
 
i would be interested to hear you elaborate on how you use them. I imagine before compression, because the idea is to raise the volume of louder signals which comp. does the opposite. what kind of settings would be a good starting point ( i use logic aswell) thanks in advance!!!
 
Yeah, its really one of those things where its best to try it out for yourself - it will become easy to understand. Try it out on your snare tracks, and listen to the bleed gradually disappear. Its much more natural that using a gate IMO, as you hear the notes fade out more nicely.
 
If you expand something and then compress it you'll defeat the purpose of using any of those tools. You'll probably just bring up the noise floor. You can use an expander to try and fix something that may be squashed. Making the softer parts even softer might increase the perceived dynamic range.
 
fatalforce said:
If you expand something and then compress it you'll defeat the purpose of using any of those tools. You'll probably just bring up the noise floor. You can use an expander to try and fix something that may be squashed. Making the softer parts even softer might increase the perceived dynamic range.
Click to expand...

You often use these for more than just making something louder or softer, you use them to change the envelope of the waveform.

You can expand something to reduce the bleed from other instruments and still use a compressor to give it more punch. You may have to be more aware of the release time.
 
Machinated said:
I have been using these the past few weeks, and I can't believe I wasn't using these before. Right now I'm just using the stock Logic one, but the Sonnox one is meant to be really good too. Even still, such a natural way to reduce some bleed in drums. Try it now guys!
Click to expand...

I actually have the Sonnox one but I've never installed it. I should. :lol:
 
Okay... pre-rant-on-compression-and-expansion-rant...

Think of an expander as an 'un-compressor'. Let's ignore the attack, release, and softness of a compressor for a moment, and pretend we've fixed a threshold somewhere and don't need to worry about it. I'll go into both very shortly. Also, I'm not going into horrible amounts of detail, and I'm showing examples in terms of ideal conditions just for simplicity's sake, so don't get too uptight about how the real world doesn't follow ideals... I'm spending my entire life trying to ignore that, leave me the fuck alone.

What do we have? Well, we can visualize it as a sloped line - in fact, the GUI for GClip and at least a few compressors show it as this) - with a 'kink' in it. The line goes from the bottom left corner to some spot no higher than the upper right corner. It basically has a slope of one up to the 'kink', and then a different slope after that. The second slope will be 'flatter' than the first in a compressor.

This is simply plotting the 'after compression' level against the 'before compression' level. Above the kink (threshold) there is a new slope (ratio) that dictates how gain will go up and down above the kink. Below the kink, if something gets 10dB louder, it stays 10dB louder; however, above the kink, the compressor sees 'this is 10dB louder' and changes it to (depending on the slope) 'this is less than 10dB louder'. '

Let's establish something about ratios... they're fancy-looking fractions as far as we're concerned. We have a ratio (fraction) between 1:1 (1/1), which is no change at all, and 1:∞ (1/∞, or, as far as we're concerned, 0), which is full-on limiting. The ratio decides where exactly in 'less than 10dB louder' the output winds up. If we have something 10db above the threshold go into a compressor with a 1:10 ratio, it will come out 1dB (10dB * 1/10) above the threshold. If the compressor has a 1:2 ratio, it'll come out 5dB (10dB * 1/2) above the threshold. If the ratio is 1:∞, it'll come out at the threshold (10dB * 1/∞ is 0, because for what we're concerned with 1/∞ is 0) when it's done. Basically, the signal gets a 'free ride' up to the threshold, but after it gets there it's paying customs on excess volume... think 'extremely progressive income tax' here.

Now, what does this have to do with expanders? Well, if you have the ratios going the other way, you're increasing dynamic range and not reducing it. Where before we'd have a 1:5 ratio, taking a signal 5dB above the threshold and giving us one 1dB above the threshold, an expander would shove things lower... think Russian 'build on the backs of the poor' empire-building. If it's more intuitive, pretend it's a compressor whose line goes above after the kink and then has the stuff below the kink 'shrunk' so that the whole line would fit in the box we've been looking at. Expansion can be used to 'liven up' the dynamic range of a track, or to seem like a more 'natural' gate by just shoving everything lower instead of cutting it off abruptly.

Long story short... compressors reduce dynamic range to bring everything up, expanders increase dynamic range and then drag the 'bottom' down.

Feel free to ask questions, I am going to be finishing that compressor FAQ up at some point.

Jeff
 
Not quite, it can help cut down on noise in some places and dramatically alter the way the track's volume 'swings', to put it loosely... also, depending on how you set things up, you could potentially have one undo the other, but that takes work so it's not likely that you're doing it accidentally. I know a guitarist who built all his own gear and set up a very primitive expander behind an... 'eccentric' compressor to help with noise. Also, if you're fucking with a guitar signal, keep in mind that a distorted amp is basically a series of clipping stages (and that clipping is a destructive type of 'limiting', to use the term loosely) and that even though you still have EXTREME compression from the amp an expander will still have a noticeable effect.

Jeff
 
A compressor and expander will not cancel each other out in most cases, as you would be using them for different things. It would be pretty pointless to set up a chain where you have a compressor and you want to cut out its effect.

For example, say on a snare mic, I'd use the expander to quieten the bleed which brings out the snare more. Then afterwards I'd compress the snare at a different threshold, and different attack and release settings to adjust that.
 
most of us are not using the comp on a snaretrack to even out the volume of the hits, but to shape the waveform of the single hit (transients). so they work perfectly fine combined.

or for example on a vocaltrack to cut down noises and hum etc...you'll set the expander's threshold so low that it cuts out the noises..set that low it will not affect the dynamics of the vocals though....

I mean Jeff is right, the function of an expqnder is pretty much the opposite of a compressor, but the settings and how you're using them are completely different....
 
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