”Some Bastard” said:
As for 'old hat', if some people here actually responded to points made by more knowledgeable people there would probably be less repetition, don't you think?
You should not confuse not having the time to respond to every scattershot "point" you throw up in a disconnected manner with having less knowledge about something. The claim to have more knowledge about metal in order to lord it over someone is something that I would never engage in because it is just too wide and far-flung of a subject for someone to do such a thing--unless they are superficial, egocentric and want to score debating points with minimal efforts. It is also common message board boilerplate that creates more heat than light. How do we measure knowledge? Is it trivial? Shall we play a form of heavy metal
Jeopardy!? Who produced what record in what studio in what year? What songs did a band cover during 1985 rehearsal session and who played the guitar? What words are inscribed on a piece of particular vinyl and which company released it?
This is not how it works to me…in fact it would be possible for a young kid with a collection of 300 records to know more about metal than some old, jaded codger with over 3,000 pieces of vinyl if he has forgotten how to feel and think about certain matters.
I am learning more every day and am not infalliable and have been an idiot, so it is bad form for me to say I will crush you with my metal knowledge like a child on a playground.
But since you insist, I will respond to one of your points to provide an example.
”Some Bastard” said:
And so reviewers of these fanzines wrote reviews that roughly went like "Priest's Screaming For Vengeance is an excellent record, except for Take These Chains which is a bit too commercial". Or "Anvil's Forged In Fire is an excellent platter. Too bad it has a commercial song like Never Deceive Me on it". Or "Metallica's Ride The Lightning is a great second album. Too bad it has a song like Escape on it, which is waaaaay to commercial".
One of the lessons you should have absorbed from “False Metal” is the fact that when people become combative about the definitions of heavy metal there are excesses due to overzealousness, but there are many large kernels of truth at the bottom of this impulse that can spiral out of control and result in wrongheaded declarations. The discussion of true metal based on the reception of the live Medieval show chronicled by Bob Muldowney was one example of this and the brief discussion that followed. Another example would be the discussion of how retro metal became such a blurry term that was applied to bands irrespective of whether or not they were actually engaging in the retro machinations that some band and journalists regarded as tacky and tawdry.
Yet you failed to note the clear and concrete distinction between the excesses and correct claims I uncovered and that, in reality, was made by metallers who keep a level head and do not rush to judgments--unlike you, Mr. Bastard. Not surprising in the least given the way that you have degenerated into a sophisticated troll threatening to beat up people on the other side of a computer screen. How appropriate, reavealing, droll and cliché-ridden…
Now, let us return to the “point” you are trying to prove here that once again ignores the argument I made firmly based on the statements, ideas and opinions of people who play, create and actually care (I know that this is a hard concept for you to wrap your mind around, but try to for the sake of this argument) about heavy metal as a living and breathing musical entity.
You really do not have a “point” in post #106 of the “Impure Metal” thread
lol: it has derailed), though, you merely meander about without coming to a real conclusion or saying anything of substance, but here is the closest you come to a thesis statement:
”Some Bastard” said:
When Metal became more extreme so did this 'too commercial' thing. It became a kind of tough guy thing to state that you thought Venom's "Black Metal" was 'too commercial'. It meant you were da man. Of course it was just a reaction to the times, but this is where it brought us today. People dividing music into commercial/non-commercial, like its some kind of sport.
I can only assume what you are intimating, since you are unclear, is that “Take These Chains,” “Escape,” and “Never Deceive Me” were all slagged as “too commercial” for no other reason that they contained some melody and were good songs that were the victim of reviewers too uptight, narrow-minded and wanting to prove how tough they were.
However, your lack of knowledge
about the origins of these songs and the circumstances surrounding them leads you to lump them all together as belonging to a certain class--which is wrong and ignorant.
The comments about “Escape” and “Never Deceive Me” may very well have been excesses that people concerned about the commercialization of metal (a concrete event and trend chronicled in the article) engaged in, but “Take These Chains” is a different animal entirely, and the reviewers slagging it as a light and poofy song written for commercial purposes were not blindly flailing about, but making a sound decision based on actual information or an instinctual hunch that was correct.
“Take These Chains” was a 7” single and promo single CBS sent around as one of the songs from
Vengeance to serve as a hook precisely because it was a commercial song commissioned for the sole purpose of showing a softer and lradio-friendly side of Judas Priest. Yes I said, “commissioned.” For “Take these Chains” is not a song that was composed by Judas Priest, it was a piece composed by Bob Halligan the self-described “first-call heavy metal sound doctor” who was called in by bands or labels to compose “heavy metal” that would be more palatable to the bland mainstream top-40 tastes. He wrote other masterpiece such Helix’s “Rock You,” Kix’s "Don't Close Your Eyes" as well as other insipid fare with an hot hit mentality and a bullet eye on the top-40--as well as chart songs for Cher, Kathy Mattea, Michael Bolton, Kiss, Jennifer Rush and Joe Nichols. (Why not? A hit “heavy metal” song is interchangeable with country and adult contemporary artists since metal has no inherent meaning to some people.) Luckily for Judas Priest, Halligan, an off and on again born-again (and again?) Christian was in a fuzzy period during the early eighties and not too concerned about superstitious and evangelical spiritual dichotomies, so he decided to grab the paycheck CBS was offering and hacked out “Take These Chains” and also wrote "Some Heads Are Gonna Roll" for the
Defenders of the Faith album. Of course, Judas Priest followed this approach to its logical end and began writing their own sappy, synthesized top-40 palaver that led to a significant selection of songs from
Defenders being weak and uninspired and then throwing the commercial hat fully into the ring with the execrable
Turbo.
In other words, they became putty in the hands of the commercial music machine and supine caricatures who would do anything asked of them as long as there was money, publicity or notoriety involved. And sunk to depths that others have correctly claimed as constituting a bizarre and horrid mix of repugnance and ridiculousness:
Check out this exhibit
I could go on and talk about Priest jumping on the nu-metal bandwagon Halford and the Two debacle (as well as going a bit further back in time), but you get the picture--even if you do not care about the consequence of such actions for their peers and heavy metal as a whole during the mid-to-late 80s(covered in the article, you can try to connect the dots yourself, Mr. Bastard, if you dare!!!!
) and will condone, excuse, or rationalize such blatant corrosive commercial maneuvers by clicking on the “happy throwing the horns” emoticon and typing “Let the music do the talking!” Or other standard and hackneyed things like claiming that cause you have never been in a band you just can't understand, man.
So, in the end, it really does not matter if I reply to your “points” because you have made more than evident the fact that you think all of this is a bunch of bullshit that is made up by people who are juvenile, narrow-minded and employing obsolete definitions. It would be just a waste of my time to devote the time to arguing with someone who is not going to listen and repeatedly makes arguments that are not rooted in what is actually said.
But let this example serve as a notice that it is not because you have made “points” which I cannot counter or respond to that has led me to remain silent about them. I could provide similar examples and make similar counterarguments to almost all of the “points” you raise in a disconnected, stream of consciousness fashion. But as you can see, it takes the time to think things through and the effort to make connections based on collected and collated evidence instead of just typing out random thoughts, impressions and recollections and then kicking, screaming and bawling for someone to instantly reply because of the ethic of instant and immediate gratification message board culture as instilled in you.
Also, I do simply do not have the time to sit down and type out thousands of words to every “point” you make, because I have matters and obligations that extend beyond staring at a computer screen for long spells of time--something I can no longer do at home for a few weeks, which is actually liberating in a way.
”Some Bastard” said:
Oh, I see where Mr. Ward is coming from but you don't think there is a kind of marketing plan behind Bolt Thrower too? They may not call it that, but their albums are in the shops and have a very recognizable logo and artwork. That's marketing too!!! In fact, that is the very essence of marketing!!
But don’t be absolutely despondent, some of your “points” will most likely be addressed in the next article of this nature I write (who knows when that may be at this point, but it will be entirely different in many ways) called “Market Metal.” The title and lyrical quote were chosen before you typed the vapid words above.
And even though Laeth MacLaurie, or the man of many names, is a boil on the ass of all humanity ($200 if you can name the song whose lyrics I am referring to, Mr. Bastard
) some of “False Metal” was influenced by his cock-eyed commentary. So stay tuned…..
Carry on...
