Feedback for Local Advertising: HELP NEEDED!

[Harvester]

I'll respond to the last few posts and then let this thread run its course.

1. Visas affect- Sales were soft prior to the visa debacle. While it may have indeed hurt some last minute decisions, it was a stark contrast to the previous 7 years of sales.

2. Pulling it back- The extra bands did not cost me anything significantly more (thanks to the donations, blind sponsors, etc). This was an experiment to offer more bang for your buck so to speak. The ticket cost would have remained the same regardless of whether it was 12 bands or 14 bands. Do I believe having 2 extra bands is hurting me in terms of ticket sales or driving away old customers who have to spend an extra 90 minutes at the venue? No. Do I believe the additional shows hurt the main festival sales? No. Those are a separate ticket and always an option as opposed to being part of the main ticket price.

3. Scaling it back- This is not going to happen. Doing any other show is just another risk. I have worked for a decade to build the ProgPower USA legacy. I'd rather go out on top than fade away. If the festival ends with PP USA XIII, then so be it. I can hold my head up and walk away into the sunset.

This festival has always depended on the fans more than anywhere else to help it out. That is part of the amazing success story. You helped make it what it is today. I'm just asking for a bit more help than usual in these lean times. Between sponsors, gold badge holders, and regular forum members, we have a very large and vocal family. If we can get only 15% of those people to convince one other person to go, everything will be secure for a few more years.

Thanks to everyone for the posts and insight.

 

[TlalocFJCV]

Hi all, I bought my tickets last month, I still have not got my plane ticket to fly from Mexico City to Atlanta and have no hotel reservation either, but in 2008 when I attended to PPIX, for me it was a lifetime experience, the venue, people, the whole metal sense that surrounds this fest is a kind of a metal dream come true, this is not the usual concert where you have to battle for a seat or a place near front stage to enjoy the music while getting hurt by an idiot that call himself "mosher, stage diver or so", that's why I'm trying to get a friend of mine with me because this fest deserves to be alive for many years.


See ya at PPXI

 

[James]

I will now turn to the Atlanta market with a strong advertising push. Individual day tickets will go on sale much earlier this year based on the strength of previous Atlanta shows from some of the bands. I believe that Kamelot drew around 700 on the last tour in Atlanta. I would guess that less than 10% of that audience has bought tickets for the festival. I have also received several emails from Turisas/Tyr fans asking about individual day ticket sales as well. I fully expect the remaining Friday tickets to sell-out based on just that buzz alone. Nightwish pulls in over 1K in attendance at every stop in Atlanta. I would doubt that 95% of that crowd knows that Marco/Tarot is playing on Saturday yet.

This is probably a ridiculous question, but I am curious about (and ignorant of) the process: Does Ticketmaster do anything at all to assist with sales? What I mean, specifically, is (using Kamelot as an example) can/would they send e-mails to people who bought tickets for the last Kamelot show to say “Hey, they’re coming back (as part of ProgPower USA), click on the link to get your tickets”, or something along those lines? I don’t get any Atlanta results on a search for Kamelot on the Ticketmaster site, since the show is listed simply as “ProgPower USA XI Two Day Pass”. I don’t know if it’s a Ticketmaster limitation, or if you need to avoid the specifics in case a headliner has to drop out.

Hopefully a Kamelot fan would know to check the band’s web site for dates, but even then they could theoretically get confused by clicking on that ENTERTHEVAULT.COM link, seeing no Atlanta date, and assuming the show here was canceled (and then do like we always do around here and say “I guess the Atlanta show got canceled…that figures! We NEVER get any cool shows” ).

 

[Prog_Please]

I don't know if this thread was intended for the Showcase or not, but it can't hurt:

I bought 3 gold badges this year (taking my brother and his girlfriend for the first time) hoping to make it down for the festival. However, he just got a new job last week and I'm uncertain as to my job status, thus making it hard to predict if we will get the time off to make it down to the festival.

Depending on how much time he and I can get off, we are planning to buy tickets for the Showcase date, but can't pull the trigger on purchasing the tickets until a later date. Hopefully you will see 3 more tickets sold for the Showcase in the next two weeks (luckily we both work on the 9/80 schedule so we get every other Friday off. If we have the Friday of PPUSA off, it will definitely make the Showcase date a lot more feasible).

Commenting on some of the ideas posted previously, I'd personally like to see more progressive death metal related bands. I think that would be a great way to attract the younger crowd (I consider myself as a member of the younger crowd for sure). Perhaps the two bands that excite me the most this year are Oceans of Sadness and Leprous.

Also, it might be worthwhile to look into advertising on facebook. You can specifically target people who like certain bands I believe, as well as target people of a specific age group.

You could also try expanding the donation thingy you did with the Turisas situation. Have an open donation place that people can throw a buck or two randomly to fund a specific, continuous action. For example, a fund pot used for funding a facebook add, or a newspaper add. Run the add until the pot runs dry. This strategy has worked extremely well for funding Ventrilo servers (as an example). I can't see why it wouldn't work for funding an add.

Just some ideas.

 

[King Lek]

Facebook advertising is an interesting thought. You absolutely can target peoples musical interests down to specific bands as well as geographic locations. Budget can be controlled as in all pay per click. Could not hurt to throw a couple hundred there and see what sticks.

I have found a few off bands through their ads.... back when I did not have my browser blocking them...the ads that is.

 

[tenebre]

I think the pape5r advertising is a waste. I just find that literally no one reads those style of papers for show info any more. I think you would get more bang for your buck with fliers at university commons, bars etc.

We ran ads for the recording studio and not one single client cited the paper as a reference. All of our free advertising got our calls.
Is there a radio metal show in Atlanta? That might be worthwhile if they will give you a decent rate.

 

[DarkOne]

Glenn et al,

I'm late to the party, but I have a few thoughts on the matter.

I've attended the last 8 PPs, and have been a gold badge holder for the last 6. ProgPower is a blind buy must attend for me every year. I'm sorry I didn't know about the fest for years 1 or 2, but I'll be there until the end.

It's impossible to pinpoint the specific reason for the downward slide of ticket sales. If it's the economy, then waiting it out while you still make a profit (albeit a smaller one) is the right move. If it's the other factors mentioned, such as jaded fans, more frequent band touring, or aging fans, then an improving economy won't matter much.

I can speak only for myself when I talk about reasons that PP is set apart from other fests. I generally don't travel for bands, but PP has been a special exception for a number of reasons. There are bands I can't see anywhere else in the US. The venue is amazing. The small number of people makes this a special event. The close-knit small niche of attendees creates a unique social atmosphere. One of the most important aspects to me, this isn't just a regular touring stop for most bands.

To me, seeing unique shows at PP makes it all worthwhile. It was great to see Iced Earth or Helloween and Gamma Ray, but I could have seen that much closer to Philadelphia. However, without PP I would never have seen such shows as:

• Weapons of Mass Destruction (Sav reunion)
• Everygrey orchestra show
• Circus Maximus doing cover songs
• Jon Oliva doing a one man keyboard show
• An attempt at 'Stars'
• Jorn doing a career retrospective
• 'Out of nowhere' amazing bands such as Circus Maximus or Sabaton
• Queensryche professional karaoke
• Guest musicians galore

and many other special moments, including the magnum opus:

• The All Star Jam

I think PP could survive and prosper by continuing to focus on that 'special event' area (not that it hasn't been doing so all along).

There was an earlier suggestion about fewer bands. I didn't suggest it, but I believe that the thinking behind that was that you have a set pool of money to pay for all of the bands. If you have many bands, they all have to be smaller ones. If you have fewer ones, you could spend more money on the bands that you do bring in. I understand that this isn't the case due to sponsorships and such, but the thrust of that argument is the focus on the headliners.

On that note, I'll go controversial and suggest a raise in ticket prices. I don't know the correct price point, but I wonder if a raise of $25 per ticket (for example) would be enough to fill out the lineup with bigger draw bands, or more importantly to get more one off shows? I understand that you aren't getting those massive cast bands that begin with 'Ayr' or 'Ava', but there are probably many other special shows you could put together with the right dollars. There are reunions that have been speculated in the last few years, such as Falconer, the 'Thundersteel' era of Riot, or even Savatage. There are bands that might be pulled in to do a special show, such as Symphony X doing 'V' in its entirety. Sure, a raise in prices might reduce your walk ups, but would those special shows be enough to pull in the niche audience from around the country and the world? I don't know the business aspect well enough to answer, but it's worth investigation.

As you say, when it isn't there anymore, you'll have one last show and then call it a career. No one can fault you for it, but from a selfish perspective I hope things come around and that this show goes on for much longer. Either way, you've done a great job.

Thanks for listening. Keep up the great work.

Steve in Philly

 

[dcowboys311]

I think that expanding the main focus of the festival is probably your best bet. Yeah, you've done that over the past few years, but how many people how actively follow thrash these days listen to Paradox? They're a good band, but not a strong draw, and not nearly enough to get some out-of-towners in. If you're going to try and add some new genres, it would be most effective to get some bands from those genres higher up on the bill. Otherwise it's just introducing already loyal customers to new styles of music, which is cool for their tastes, but doesn't help out your wallet all that much.

 

[compurocker]

Not sure if this is realistic, but could t-shirts get sold a month or two early (maybe just to gold badgers/VIPs, or even just specifically to Atlanta street teamers). I know the shirt design had to change last year due to the roster changes, so printing them early may not be a risk worth taking.

But you'd have some walking billboards out there hitting the bars/clubs and the summer concerts leading up to the fest. Of course the date would need to be prominently featured on the back of the shirt so people realize it's coming up and hasn't already passed lol.

I found out about the fest by seeing a shirt in the crowd at another concert. I'd be more than willing to pay shipping on a PPUSA XI shirt to get it early and help promote the fest. Though I don't go to nearly as many shows as I used to, and there's already a pretty strong Chicago contingent anyway.

If you wanted to just put them on the backs of some folks in Atlanta to help draw in some locals, you could just set a date/place for pickup and avoid shipping altogether.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Glenn et al,

I'm late to the party, but I have a few thoughts on the matter.

I've attended the last 8 PPs, and have been a gold badge holder for the last 6. ProgPower is a blind buy must attend for me every year. I'm sorry I didn't know about the fest for years 1 or 2, but I'll be there until the end.

It's impossible to pinpoint the specific reason for the downward slide of ticket sales. If it's the economy, then waiting it out while you still make a profit (albeit a smaller one) is the right move. If it's the other factors mentioned, such as jaded fans, more frequent band touring, or aging fans, then an improving economy won't matter much.

I can speak only for myself when I talk about reasons that PP is set apart from other fests. I generally don't travel for bands, but PP has been a special exception for a number of reasons. There are bands I can't see anywhere else in the US. The venue is amazing. The small number of people makes this a special event. The close-knit small niche of attendees creates a unique social atmosphere. One of the most important aspects to me, this isn't just a regular touring stop for most bands.

To me, seeing unique shows at PP makes it all worthwhile. It was great to see Iced Earth or Helloween and Gamma Ray, but I could have seen that much closer to Philadelphia. However, without PP I would never have seen such shows as:

• Weapons of Mass Destruction (Sav reunion)
• Everygrey orchestra show
• Circus Maximus doing cover songs
• Jon Oliva doing a one man keyboard show
• An attempt at 'Stars'
• Jorn doing a career retrospective
• 'Out of nowhere' amazing bands such as Circus Maximus or Sabaton
• Queensryche professional karaoke
• Guest musicians galore

and many other special moments, including the magnum opus:

• The All Star Jam

I think PP could survive and prosper by continuing to focus on that 'special event' area (not that it hasn't been doing so all along).

There was an earlier suggestion about fewer bands. I didn't suggest it, but I believe that the thinking behind that was that you have a set pool of money to pay for all of the bands. If you have many bands, they all have to be smaller ones. If you have fewer ones, you could spend more money on the bands that you do bring in. I understand that this isn't the case due to sponsorships and such, but the thrust of that argument is the focus on the headliners.

On that note, I'll go controversial and suggest a raise in ticket prices. I don't know the correct price point, but I wonder if a raise of $25 per ticket (for example) would be enough to fill out the lineup with bigger draw bands, or more importantly to get more one off shows? I understand that you aren't getting those massive cast bands that begin with 'Ayr' or 'Ava', but there are probably many other special shows you could put together with the right dollars. There are reunions that have been speculated in the last few years, such as Falconer, the 'Thundersteel' era of Riot, or even Savatage. There are bands that might be pulled in to do a special show, such as Symphony X doing 'V' in its entirety. Sure, a raise in prices might reduce your walk ups, but would those special shows be enough to pull in the niche audience from around the country and the world? I don't know the business aspect well enough to answer, but it's worth investigation.

As you say, when it isn't there anymore, you'll have one last show and then call it a career. No one can fault you for it, but from a selfish perspective I hope things come around and that this show goes on for much longer. Either way, you've done a great job.

Thanks for listening. Keep up the great work.

Steve in Philly

I agree and disagree with you. I think the main selling point for me and I would say for most on this festival are the bands/performances that are exclusive to this fest. That's what I loved so much about last year's two headliners. I know it's cheaper to get touring bands as the headliners though, but I think getting highly desired bands where their only set is PP or one of few in the states is PP would be the best idea in my opinion.

I think it's an extremely bad idea to raise the price. Firstly, I don't think raising it will change the price point in terms of being able to have more special bands/moments. Secondly, just in a business sense, I have seen so many companies over the years raise their prices because they think it'll increase their bottom line. However, more times than not either they start losing money or they go bankrupt. I would imagine the same thing would happen for this fest. Not to mention, Glenn is having trouble selling out the fest quickly as of recent. Had he been having record sell outs for years on end, I may have agreed with you.

 

[LunaTEKKE]

While this won’t help 2010 ticket sales, collecting some demographic data on the audience at this year’s festival could provide some insight on how to most effectively target promotional $$ in the future. It would be fairly inexpensive to put out a postcard-sized document at the event to collect:
* Name, mailing address, e-mail address (mailing address would give an idea of the % of local attendees)
* Preferred hotel for non-local attendees
* How they first heard about PP
* How many PPs they have attended
* Top 3 web sites and/or magazines where they get their music news
* Favorite bands and/or sub-genres
* How they decide to attend from year to year (always attend, depends on headliner, depends on overall line-up, etc.)

People love free stuff, so if you could provide some incentive for attendees to fill them out, you would hopefully get a decent response rate. It wouldn’t have to cost an arm and a leg: perhaps an upgrade on Day 2 to a Gold Badge or VIP pass…a couple of free CDs from the booth with PPXII…or perhaps a “Fast Track” pass to move the winner to the front of the line of all autograph signing sessions. (Although this would take some logistical effort to keep the rest of the line from getting pissed off&#8230

You could also use the e-mail addresses to create an e-mail newsletter that could go out a few times a year. I suspect that a large percentage of attendees are *not* getting updates through this forum or through Facebook/Twitter.

I first attended the festival in 2006 when I found out that Circus Maximus was playing the Showcase. I’ve also spoken to attendees over the years who made the decision to attend specifically because of one band. So I think it’s especially important to get all the bands’ PR teams on the case as well.

I promoted an event recently for the Graves’ Disease Foundation, and paid out of pocket for local advertising, because the Foundation did not have an advertising budget. It turned out that about half the attendees said that that was how they heard about the event. Can’t say if a music festival would see the same benefit, but I do believe that advertising can be effective.

 

[AMBR]

LunaTEKKE, these are the best ideas I've heard yet. Very good thinking. I believe survey cards could really provide some strong input on how to best construct and market the festival to insure the greatest attendance. A newsletter is a super idea because it will keep those who do not frequent forums or social networks informed and also keep the fest in the forefront of people's minds. I'd be more than happy to help out in any way with implementation.

 

[Pellaz]

Is there a radio metal show in Atlanta? That might be worthwhile if they will give you a decent rate.

There are no commercial metal radio stations or shows in Atlanta, although there are some stations that play that 'modern hard rock' stuff.

There are two college-radio metal shows in Atlanta; Glenn is already in touch with one; see below.