Fiddled with my mix a lot (Thrash, all real)

Chris Lucas

Chris Lucas

I DON'T BELIEVE IN MAGIC
Dec 4, 2006
297
1
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www.chrislucasproductions.com
Most people say all real, and then what they mean is they have 50% drums 50% samples blended in. Let me tell you, this is all real, and boy was it a pain in the ass to get to sound good.
Drummer didn't hit very hard so that was a problem, plus my room isn't great but I like the sound of it all so far.

Vox and solo tone aren't done by any means but I like the way the guitars and drums work together so far :D

Thoughts?!:popcorn:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22446811/TLD Rmaster for sneap.mp3

New mix with triggers:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22446811/TLD Rmaster for sneaptrig.mp3
 
I think it's a nice mix, especially since everything is real. Good job.

But I wanna give honest feedback so here goes: The kick sounds a bit 'techno like', hard to describe. Is it a wooden beater I hear? Or you used the 'coin trick'? Maybe it's a bit too scooped with boosted lows that also causes it to sound like it does, I don't know. Please explain what you did to the kick, I wanna learn too hehe. The snare has a bit too much of lows too, I think it would be nicer if it was a little brighter. The hihat is kind of harsh but maybe that's because it's mixed in quite loud. Maybe soften the hihats/overheads a little with a tapesimulator or something, I like what Nebula (e.g. and it's free) can do to the cymbals. I like the bass and guitars. I think the guitars sound nice but they're a little thin due to being overpowered by the more lowend oriented drums. Vocals are nice too but sound a little dry to me.

This is of course also personal opinion, but I thought I'd share it with you.
 
Quite honestly, the drums here would really benefit from sample replacing/augmenting. The kick sounds, as RaNk said, something like from a techno tune. The snare is really buried, lacks body and sounds really, really dry. Kinda same deal with the toms. 100% natural drums require a good drummer who knows how to beat the skins, a decent-sounding room and a really well tuned quality kit.

I know it feels nice to do something 100% natural, but you have to distinguish personal agendas from what benefits the song and the mix the most.
 
Jarkko Mattheiszen said:
I know it feels nice to do something 100% natural, but you have to distinguish personal agendas from what benefits the song and the mix the most.
Click to expand...

This. I think the toms are ok (well the floor tom isn't, but the rack toms are), but the kick could really benefit from being replaced with a sample. I think you might be able to make the snare work if you EQ space for it from the other instruments or boost it more, but you could also layer a sample with it to get the same result.

"boy was it a pain in the ass to get to sound good" this is exactly why people almost always replace the kick in metal and heavier genres in general. Not just because they go "Ooooh I wanna be hip and so I'll replace the drums!" but just because the kick especially is such a pain in the ass if you don't replace it.

Edit: Oh, and in general I think the mix is good (well, the vocals need work but you said they weren't done so that's obvious). The guitar tone is a little bit muddy maybe, and doesn't feel very strong to me, although like RaNK said it could be due to the drums. Although for the style of the song I think it works ok. Also, I agree on the cymbals thing (they feel a little thin, and I would say cold, rather than warm).
 
Ok yeah, i forgot to mention that I personally would love to replace the snare and kick, but the guys I'm recording refuse to have any sample replacement, and yes they can hear the difference so I can't just bullshit them.
As a matter of fact I'll go do a replacement mix right now and post it later.

I'll probably do a mix my way and their way and see which they pick but they really want to do a "real" drum mix -_-

For the kick, because he didn't play very hard most of the time I basically compressed the shit out of it, gated the shit out of it, and eq'ed the shit out of it, which is probably why it sounds so "technoey"
Edit: and thanks for the opinions, much appreciated.
 
labelchild said:
Ok yeah, i forgot to mention that I personally would love to replace the snare and kick, but the guys I'm recording refuse to have any sample replacement, and yes they can hear the difference so I can't just bullshit them.
As a matter of fact I'll go do a replacement mix right now and post it later.

I'll probably do a mix my way and their way and see which they pick but they really want to do a "real" drum mix -_-

For the kick, because he didn't play very hard most of the time I basically compressed the shit out of it, gated the shit out of it, and eq'ed the shit out of it, which is probably why it sounds so "technoey"
Edit: and thanks for the opinions, much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Try to reason with them. I've been in a similar situation a couple of times, and with some diplomatic skills you just might get them to realize why sample augmenting the kit isn't necessarily a bad thing. Musicians who absolutely insist on the no samples policy are usually the ones who don't realize they lack in both skills and budget to justify such a fixation.
 
I like it alot better this way, the kick does wonders this way and it doesn't sound unnatural at all. Still I think somehow it should also work with the original snare if tweaked a little bit.
 
You're welcome, I wonder what the others think. I listened to it a little louder now, and I think softening the cymbals some more would make it really nice, they're still a bit harsh. Especially the hihat.

*edit*

Thought I'd just try and show what I mean with the cymbals. I put a tape simulator on the mix to soften them.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19759737/TLD Rmaster TapeSoftened.mp3
 
I edited my previous post, with an example of the tapesimulator.

It softens the harsh frequenties and makes them sit in the mix more rather than peaking above it all the time. To me it sounds more pleasant. Of course it's not ideal in my mp3 cause I had to do it on the full mix. But I hope you see what I mean.
 
RaNk said:
I edited my previous post, with an example of the tapesimulator.

It softens the harsh frequenties and makes them sit in the mix more rather than peaking above it all the time. To me it sounds more pleasant. Of course it's not ideal in my mp3 cause I had to do it on the full mix. But I hope you see what I mean.
Click to expand...

i really like what you did. Would you mind sharing the plug-in / settings? ;)
 
Fr0zen said:
i really like what you did. Would you mind sharing the plug-in / settings? ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah of course, it's really easy.

First you need Nebula if you didn't already have it.

http://www.acustica-audio.com/

You can get the free version, it already has a nice set of impulse based presets on it. You can try e.g. 'tape warmer' (or something like that). That would already be nice on cymbals I think, but it's a little too much for a complete mix I think. The preamp presets can also do wonders for me.

If you want to have some nicer tapesims, you can get the R2R tapes from here:

http://cdsoundmaster.com/site/cds-software-online/r2r.html

But then you would need the full version of Nebula, so it costs you some.

I like it, I use it on evey mix. :)
 
labelchild said:
Ahhhhhhhh ok I'll try that
Click to expand...

Just try, it never hurts. One more thing, but this is really personal taste I think, the mix has got quite much lows on it. I think you could 'fix' that in the master, but it would be nice to do it in the mix of course. I would take out some lows around 140Hz and some low mids around 300-320Hz. It can give the mix more bite, and also easier to make it a little louder if you would want that. Again it's just my opinion. :)

I just found out by playing around a little. I think it's a bit overdone, but I can as wel share what I mean:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19759737/TLD Rmaster TapeSoftened Louder.mp3
 
labelchild said:
Anyone know of a comparable RTAS tapesim that isn't a billion dollars? :D
Click to expand...

If you have an old pc around somewhere, you could install Reaper (or whatever) and Nebula and just render the overheads and hihat tracks with it as a workaround. Reaper is free to try and Nebula is free too. That is if you cannot find an RTAS one, I don't know of any myself (pc user).
 
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