Five Former Members Of In Flames Unite In The Halo Effect

[ThePhobiac]

I remember seeing Cloud Connected on Headbanger's Ball and thinking "this music is great but the singer is kinda nerdy" and I found the contrast interesting enough to look into the band more -- if they had someone more typical of the genre on vocals, I'm not sure I would've been as curious. Just my experience, though.

 

[Jester Slave]

No man. That's not a matter of opinions. That's a fact. If someone cannot sing two consecutive notes then that person is not a good singer.



That's pure speculation and there's the fact of the huge success of Anders outside of IF. Like there's not such success.

Luca Toni couldn't take two steps forward without having trouble not falling over, yet he was among the deadliest strikers at the time. As long as you are delivering what you are supposed to be, no one cares if you are actually "worthy" of doing it. Okay, Anders is and was a shit singer. Great. Meanwhile in America's Got Talent and the likes everyone hits all the notes, yet those contestants are lucky if they can perform at birthday parties.

You want to please the smelly neckbeards with a crowd of 700 at a metal fest? Go with your vocal teacher approved guy for those perfect growls and whatnot. You want to headline the most mainstream metal festivals, where 80% of the people don't even know what mdm was? Get Anders. And for the love of god, don't bring up how he became shit live, because no one cares. People listened to their stuff and wanted to see them live and that is the point.

If you want to go on by side projects then you might as well put Jesper in the dumpster as well. Sure, Karma for example is a very fun pop metal track,

I remember seeing Cloud Connected on Headbanger's Ball and thinking "this music is great but the singer is kinda nerdy" and I found the contrast interesting enough to look into the band more -- if they had someone more typical of the genre on vocals, I'm not sure I would've been as curious. Just my experience, though.

Same. My cousins were mainly into hip-hop and rap, though they weren't against the occasional nu metal hype. Still, until In Flames, the most hardcore they were willing to listen was Metallica. But OFTW, TQP or Take This Life just blew them away and I remember that I was searching for live performances online in shitty 140p and we had to wait like 10 minutes for the video to load then we set there to watch it over and over and over again because that felt like the coolest shit.

Early 2000s IF made worlds collide and like it or not, it would have never reached as much success without Anders.

 

[DE4life]

I know back in the day (talking 2002ish) when I spoke to most IF fans the consensus was that the guitars were the hook and you got used to the vocals eventually. Post-2002 idk if that changed significantly for Anders to be the hook. Maybe. If we're being honest metal and metalheads are not really good judges of vocal quality hence the likes of Cannibal Corpse even being a thing at all. So you can't really compare to normal genres of music where it is important to actually be a good singer/vocalist. It's not really a requirement for most metal genres, more like a bonus.

 

[eochaid]

Meanwhile in America's Got Talent and the likes everyone hits all the notes, yet those contestants are lucky if they can perform at birthday parties.

Cool story. Why don't you, instead compare him to the hundreds of metal musicians that are able to sing and are more successful than he is?

Now, Anders is asking people to pay to see him "sing" live despite his inability to sing live. That shouldn't even be happening. But it's happening. People is paying him to see him be out of tune. I don't think that you understand how amazing this is.

I remember seeing Cloud Connected on Headbanger's Ball and thinking "this music is great but the singer is kinda nerdy" and I found the contrast interesting enough to look into the band more -- if they had someone more typical of the genre on vocals, I'm not sure I would've been as curious. Just my experience, though.

Now, imagine all of the people who's first time was some song from asop and decided to not give it a try due to Anders awful performance.

 

[Jester Slave]

You are beating around the bush once again. He sucked on ASOP, he's not as good live... true, true, but what does it have to do with what he had already achieved? You can tarnish your legacy but never ruin it. I never expected such vitriol towards him. I mean we jokingly, half-jokingly poke him and there are many flaws to him admittedly, but that is an actual shocker that someone who cares at least as much about the band to visit this board, would legitimately believe that Anders was not a huge part of the band's success. I'd expect it from someone who thought everything from Colony onwards sucked, but not from anyone who actually enjoyed their early 2000s records.

The man "headlined" such hits as Cloud Connected, System and Trigger, but I would aslo praise him on Minus, Metaphor and Free Fall, which all sounded unique compared to your run of the mill average metal bands with much better singers. He pretty much carried STYE, which was the first record where it felt like the music is accompanying him and not vice versa. And last but not least he delivered his imo best ever studio performance on Come Clarity - pro tools or not, he squeezed every last juice from his voice. How is it not a fucking testament to his talents and/or senses that his contribution made such a loud, obnoxious, in your face record into one where you feel the urge to sing along while simultaneously headbang to what feels like a million bpm, while making the transition seamless?

This shit is pissing me off for real, because I absolutely agree that without Jesper and co. he would never have had this opportunity, but to deny that he was not the best person for them is just ignorant. Interesting how all the other mdm bands somehow couldn't top or even repliacte what they did, but who am I kidding, it was obviously because of Jesper. All the people jumping around during OFTW or Cloud Connected during the chorus are not actually chanting the lyrics but saying "GOOD FUCKING MELODY JESPER".

Oh, and who are these more successful metal musicians? Are we going to name top of the chart mainstream acts like Slipknot , Rammstein or Metallica? I absolutely love how IF demolished their mdm counterparts in terms of success, but fuck Anders if he is not as successful James Hetfield. You always manage to find some arbitrary metric to get around an argument. Whatever, In Flames is not as famous as Metallica, which means Anders sucks, and we have a contant in our equation which is Jesper being a god who single-handedly (well, let's not kid ourselves, Björn, Peter and Daniel were there too) skyrocketed them to headline such festivals where other melodeath acts were glad to play even before noon.

Do you know what really sends me though? What makes me turn into the Joker? The fact that you reached all of this conclusion in a thread where you actually praise a record with THIS Stanne performance. Do you know when Dark Tranquility, the band of this extremely fucking talented metal singer plays on festivals? I've found one noname festival where I couldn't even find them on the shortened billing, but I did find them playing on SABBATON OPEN AIR FESTIVAL, before Cyhra lmao. Meanwhile IF had joint second billing at Nova Rock and top billing at Swedish Rock. Your bitterness about him actually makes you die on this hill... I just don't get it.

 

[eochaid]

Just LOL.

The only real achievements that a musician has to reach are live performances. I, coming from a different era than yours, value real quality over everything else. What does it matter what he can do at studio when he sucks live? It's all fakery.

The fact that you keep on defending his inability is funny. The fact that people are giving him money to show that inability is a tragedy.

You compared him to whatever tvshows participants. I compare him to real musicians. Now, tell me how many metal musicians (among the top 200, just a random number) are a joke live like he is. Then you mention songs as if everyone agrees with your views about his "amazing" performances. Well, welcome to a world where a lot of people thought that he was ok when screaming but a mess when doing clean vocals.

This is the first time that I have to read people defending the inability of someone as something positive. And it's amazing. Crazy but amazing. Like, quality doesn't matter anymore. Just what you decide that is good. In a world, in a genre of music that is intended for live performances, you¡'re defending that he is great when he uses pro tools. Man, you're seriously insane.

You and Cjko should be starting a cult around his voice if you have not yet done that. Because you're living in a constant delusion, just like religious people are.

 

[Jester Slave]

I am defending the things he did right. I get the reason now why you despise him, but these are different topics. Right now I do not want to engage in a discussion about what he did or did not deserve. I am pointing out his undeniable achievements and his role in the band's success. It doesn't matter if you don't think he was great on those songs, or any of their songs even. There comes a point when you have to surrender, because you just run out of excuses. You might as well start denying that the Kardashians are famous, because you don't think they deserve fame. It doesn't matter what you think as long as a bunch of other people think otherwise, and with Anders it is clearly the case.

I know it pains you, but even Stay With Me has 11 million views on youtube. It has no Jesper. Anders' best years are long behind him, so even if no one liked him anymore, my point about the R2R/STYE/CC era would still be solid. But 11 fucking million views on a track where he is extremely prominent is no joke. I am Above is basically at 17 mils. IF's golden age directly correlates with him being more prominent than ever before. Seriously, there's stubbornness, and there's "grandpa doesn't want to take his meds, because he'd rather die" and you are in the latter category now. I think by the time someone reaches their mid 20s they should be mature enough to admit objective facts, even if saying it makes them puke.

I don't blame them for ditching this community because this is cancer. Sure, they changed their fans for a more supportive, less critical bunch, which is partially a cop-out from some valid criticism, but this is where I would draw the line. Your stance and behaviour on this topic is closer to an actual zealous hater than as of someone who likes the band, so it would be a complete waste of time to listen to you. I hate Coldplay, always hated them. I think they are talentless assholes who cheesed their way into the pop business with their phoney, cookie-cutter, fake songs. But I don't deny their success, nor do I come up with excuses to try to prove that it actually never happened. I'd sacrifice Chris Martin for the blood gods, that cheesy motherfucker, but even I can admit that Viva La Vida and Violet Hill are good songs, and his feature on Kanye's Homecoming is great. See how I did that? I think that guy deserves to die penniless, but I gave him credit where its due instead of coming up with excuses.

 

[Xpyro125]

Well, fuck. I missed a lot. I guess I’ll throw my hat into the ring too.

I know Anders isn’t even close to the best vocalist out there, but I generally love his vocals in every era of the band, save for a few instances which are, admittedly, a bit too many to go into without losing the ability to be concise. It’s his vocals which ultimately got me to love harsh vocals when I listened to Come Clarity, Colony, and Clayman for the first time five or so years ago (Though I’m not sure what exactly got me into the band– I think it was a bit of everything).

I think comparing Anders’ and Jesper’s contributions to In Flames, and more specifically what listeners got out of said contributions, is apples and oranges, and whether someone is or isn’t influential to a massive number of people or a genre doesn’t necessarily indicate their quality. Limp Bizkit was highly influential to nu-metal’s success, popularity, and place in music overall, but the music (Well, mainly just Fred Durst) is fucking awful, yet “Nookie” has 116 million views on YouTube. Make no mistake: Jesper is my favorite guitarist ever, and I don’t think anybody could ever replace his spot there nor In Flames’ spot as my favorite band. There is something about Jesper’s melodies that are not only virtuoso-level in my mind, but are also what truly define the Gothenburg sound for me. That’s why I think it’s a bit unfair to compare Anders’ impact to his.

It’s always going to be a stacked deck no matter how you approach it. That being said, even though Anders didn’t have a big part of the composition and musicianship until much later on, I’d argue that his vocals very much make the band as much as Jesper’s compositions– Especially today. I’ll completely agree that Anders can’t sing worth a damn live, but I don’t think that completely defines his overall impact nor his legacy, and if nothing else, his vocals are some of my favorite within the subgenre, as I really came to love them– And I still haven’t found any quite like his on any album he’s been on. I mean, for Battles it’s for the best, as the less of that we get, the better.

I’ll also agree that he responded to the interviewer about THE completely wrong, but I can understand why he’s pissed. Should he have shown some support for the other four people he’s said to be friends with? 100%, but I do respect that it’s just how he felt.

Admittedly, both sides here said a lot of what I have to say. Personally speaking, I don’t think that Anders’ live vocals now, the whole having to pay for them (Because yeah, you’re kinda paying to see the whole band live, and it’s how they get the majority of their income. Even then, we’d have to regard the entirety of Mastodon as objectively dogshit then because they’re horrible live.), and the amount of time since he did something groundbreaking are really fair to bring up in regard to how much influence he’s had overall. He has made a great impact, and that’s undeniable– It’s the quality of his legacy that should be up for debate.

At the end of the day, I don’t think either party is going to do anything groundbreaking ever again– In the current climate of music, I wouldn’t expect them to. Compared to how it was back in the 90s, the scene and creativity displayed in the amount of sounds and subgenres we have now have both absolutely flourished, even if the majority of such subgenres have become over saturated with mediocre bands. It’s nearly impossible to do something truly unique these days, with blackgaze nearly a decade ago being the only thing I can really think of. I just want my favorite bands and musicians to make music that’s great quality, which is what I think THE has done– Stanne included. It isn’t his best performance, but not only do I think it’s far from his worst, it’s pretty damn good to me, at least for the most part. I’m just wondering how we put Anders and Jesper in a dick-measuring contest here.

 

[Xpyro125]

I've only seen the OFTW melody mentioned on here. It's a good catch by Xpyro but if it was that obvious I expect I'd have seen it mentioned elsewhere too.

That, and the “Closure” melody in “Gateways”‘s solo. That one kinda slipped by without any responses, and I’m taking it upon myself to be obnoxious about it.

 

[eochaid]

@Xpyro125 look. I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to Anders vocals.

And don't get me wrong. I like his voice tone, and I like a lot of what he tried to do at the studio. At least, I appreciate it. But, when it comes to music, or musicians, I rate them, or appreciate them, for what they do live. Because that's when then really show themselves.

And, from Anders, what I've seen has always gone from decent to not good and then embarrassing.

And the problem here is, just my opinion, that a lot of In Flames fans has been very condescending to his skills (when not directly cultists). And I don't really care if there are other singers as awful as he is. I don't give a shit. He's a professional and, as a professional, should do his best to improve his skills and we should be demanding exactly that from him.

The fact that his improvements, with every new album, are just studio improvements with the use of pro tools, is just diminishing him to my eyes more and more. The fact that he insists on singing, at the studio, melodies that he won't be able to sing live I diminishing him to my eyes even more.

And, maybe the problem is how I approach music and musicians. I don't like fakery and I don't like pretenders. And, to me, Anders is a pretender.

It would be ok if they were just releasing studio albums and nothing else. But they're not. And I don't expect anything than the biggest possible quality. In his case, that biggest possible quality is too low.

As for the contribution. That's an empty debate because different people likes different things when it comes to music. But, if we're talking about legacy, then I wonder how many bands were formed after R2R IF and how many after TJR IF. How many people has picked a guitar after listening to Jesper and Bjorn and Glenn's work and how many people decided that Anders was the influence that they needed.

In the end, they're more popular now than when they were a pure melodeath band but, at the same time, they have become another band, with nothing really distinctive. That's ok. That's their decision. And that's what a lot of people likes in the metal music nowadays. Pretty packed products without too much substance.

Still, as I said, I don't care about other people's opinions in this regard. And I'll repeat it one last time. I like professionals to be professionals. In this matter, to my eyes, to my ears, Anders is not and he doesn't have any intention to be.

 

[Xpyro125]

@Xpyro125 look. I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to Anders vocals.

And don't get me wrong. I like his voice tone, and I like a lot of what he tried to do at the studio. At least, I appreciate it. But, when it comes to music, or musicians, I rate them, or appreciate them, for what they do live. Because that's when then really show themselves.

And, from Anders, what I've seen has always gone from decent to not good and then embarrassing.

And the problem here is, just my opinion, that a lot of In Flames fans has been very condescending to his skills (when not directly cultists). And I don't really care if there are other singers as awful as he is. I don't give a shit. He's a professional and, as a professional, should do his best to improve his skills and we should be demanding exactly that from him.

The fact that his improvements, with every new album, are just studio improvements with the use of pro tools, is just diminishing him to my eyes more and more. The fact that he insists on singing, at the studio, melodies that he won't be able to sing live I diminishing him to my eyes even more.

And, maybe the problem is how I approach music and musicians. I don't like fakery and I don't like pretenders. And, to me, Anders is a pretender.

It would be ok if they were just releasing studio albums and nothing else. But they're not. And I don't expect anything than the biggest possible quality. In his case, that biggest possible quality is too low.

As for the contribution. That's an empty debate because different people likes different things when it comes to music. But, if we're talking about legacy, then I wonder how many bands were formed after R2R IF and how many after TJR IF. How many people has picked a guitar after listening to Jesper and Bjorn and Glenn's work and how many people decided that Anders was the influence that they needed.

In the end, they're more popular now than when they were a pure melodeath band but, at the same time, they have become another band, with nothing really distinctive. That's ok. That's their decision. And that's what a lot of people likes in the metal music nowadays. Pretty packed products without too much substance.

Still, as I said, I don't care about other people's opinions in this regard. And I'll repeat it one last time. I like professionals to be professionals. In this matter, to my eyes, to my ears, Anders is not and he doesn't have any intention to be.

You know, I absolutely respect that take, and the reframing of the argument (I forget if it was yours or someone else's about the live thing) helps it to make a lot more sense. I don't really have any counterarguments to make, that all checks out completely.

 

[eochaid]

The 24bit hi-res resolution is available to download.

 

[DE4life]

I got the CD yesterday. We need the Japan version with the bonus track on it.

 

[eochaid]

Wait! What!?

 

[DE4life]

There's a track called 'The Path of Fierce Resistance' which is on the Japanese version of the album. Haven't seen it leaked anywhere yet though.

 

[eochaid]

Dammit!

I know that a lot of people doesn't hear any difference but I always recommend listening to the albums at their highest quality. The 24 bits version is totally worth it.

 

[DE4life]

I'll be ripping my CD at the highest possible quality. Been a while since I ripped from CD though!

 

[DE4life]

Random note, Örjan Örnkloo, who has done keyboards for IF for the last 20 years or so, also did keyboards on this album.

 

[galvanized]

What you described was the music making process and not their musical direction. Do you honestly think Jesper went from Clayman to STYE on his own without the band actually discussing it beforehand? I'm not saying he had to be held at gunpoint, but that is a wild assumption it was all his and Björn's doing.

Well said. They weren’t in a vacuum. They hung out, listened to Korn together, and dreamed of being rich together.

 

[eochaid]

And banging each others. Like any group of men that spend too much time together.