Floor Jansen wants only men in her band

[Sumeet]

Here's what's bothering me, again:

If she had required all the band members to be under five feet tall, people would have been like, "Um, that's weird." and had a good laugh.

Yeah, and that's the same reaction I had to the announcement that she wanted all men. Rather different from your violent reaction.

If she had required that all band members be white, most people would have strongly disapproved.

Heh, because I'm sure there are a ton of non-white metal musicians in northern europe waiting to try out for her band! That aside, I wouldn't "approve" of this any more than I approve of her desire to have all men in her band. But I'm apparently able to realize it's not my job to approve or disapprove of what characteristics someone wants in a band she is forming.

The attitude here to her requirement that they all be male, however, is a rather belligerent "It's her band!",

It's not belligerent. You're simply interpreting it that way because it's apparently not what you want to hear. It's probably become more forceful as the thread has progressed because you keep repeating the same thing.

which would not have been the response had I posted a thread about any other unusual requirement.

I can't speak for what anyone else's response would have been, but it certainly would have been my response. If she only wanted, say, green-skinned hermaphrodites in her band, well, I wouldn't select band members based on those criteria if I were forming a band... but if I were the one forming a band, then it would actually be my concern. You seem to think it's your responsibility to pass judgement on her selection criteria, then dub her and everyone else who doesn't get as lathered up as you "sexist". Whereas I simply understand that it is and should be her prerogative to select such band members as she sees fit, even if I think her criteria are weird.

And I think that's significant.

Think again.

It tells me that sexism is okay,

It might also tell you that pigs can fly, but that doesn't make it any more accurate.

and that many will vigorously defend it,

No one is vigorously defending anything. The basic error you are making here is that you think people pointing out her obvious natural right to use whatever selection criteria she wants, means they are somehow condoning those selection criteria. The only "vigorous" thing here is my amazement at how you are still unable to grasp this basic fact.

whereas racism or a requirement that the entire band be proficient in polka would not be, even though it's her band.

This is irrelevant. She is free to have *whatever selection criteria she wants*. You've said that her selection criteria are "not ok". Let me ask you, who exactly are you to decide what is "ok"? You can decide what's ok for you, but what makes you think it's your prerogative to decide what's ok for her? You're trying to play it both ways in this thread, making statements like "yeah it's her band, but it's not ok". Well, which is it? As has been noted, the band members have already been selected at this point. Unless you have the power to forcibly create an arbitrary "council of inter-band egalitarianism" or something, you can keep banging your head against the wall in this thread, and it's not going to change anything.

Now, this still leaves us with the basic question of why she wanted only men in her band to begin with. Unfortunately, none of your histrionics or blanket labeling of everyone as sexist have done anything to shed any light on this. If you're actually interested in this, why not make some actual attempt to contact her or her management and ask? Because otherwise, you're just proving the comment that several have made that this thread is simply idiotic.

 

[General Zod]

I'm not sure why some people always feel compelled to insist that threads be wrapped up in some predetermined amount of time. If this thread goes on for twenty pages, because two posters are interested in debating a topic, why should anyone else care?

I too find Floor's choice odd. I also recognize that in 99.99% of all other business ventures, her choice would be more than odd, it would be illegal. Furthermore, I think Floor probably has some inherent obligation to "play if forward". And more likely, she has an obligation not to play it backwards. Of course, in the end, she may make any choice she wants. Finally, I think people tend to give women a pass, when they do something sexist, especially to other women. Those familiar with Women's Suffrage, as well as the struggle women have endured over the years, are well aware of how often women stand in the way of other women. I suspect a male artist, listing the same requirement, would likely have created a much more unified response from the forum.

In the end her requirement is stupid, if for no other reason than she could have eliminated the two or three woman who applied, quietly and without anyone ever raising an eyebrow.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I'm not sure why some people always feel compelled to insist that threads be wrapped up in some predetermined amount of time. If this thread goes on for twenty pages, because two posters are interested in debating a topic, why should anyone else care?

I too find Floor's choice odd. I also recognize that in 99.99% of all other business ventures, her choice would be more than odd, it would be illegal. Furthermore, I think Floor probably has some inherent obligation to "play if forward". And more likely, she has an obligation not to play it backwards. Of course, in the end, she may make any choice she wants. Finally, I think people tend to give women a pass, when they do something sexist, especially to other women. Those familiar with Women's Suffrage, as well as the struggle women have endured over the years, are well aware of how often women stand in the way of other women. I suspect a male artist, listing the same requirement, would likely have created a much more unified response from the forum.

In the end her requirement is stupid, if for no other reason than she could have eliminated the two or three woman who applied, quietly and without anyone ever raising an eyebrow.

I don't think any thread should be limited to a certain amount of pages, but I think the last couple of pages or so has been people essentially repeating the same thing, where one side is going to agree what they believe and the other, theirs. When it gets to that point, there's no sense in arguing.

While I do still hold it is her choice, I agree it is a stupid requirement and as you say, she should have just shut her mouth. At the end of the day, who the hell knows why she picked this stipulation.

 

[General Zod]

I don't think any thread should be limited to a certain amount of pages, but I think the last couple of pages or so has been people essentially repeating the same thing, where one side is going to agree what they believe and the other, theirs. When it gets to that point, there's no sense in arguing.

That often happens. But in my mind, of two people want to spend the rest of their lives beating a dead horse, it's their lives. Unfortunately, the net isn't a format conducive to internet, so points often need to be repeated again and again, wordsmithed, etc. to make your point. Frustrating.

 

[adaher]

In the end her requirement is stupid, if for no other reason than she could have eliminated the two or three woman who applied, quietly and without anyone ever raising an eyebrow.

I think that's true, but I was thinking about it and realizing that even if she did have her mind set on an all-male band, if she auditioned females she might come across one she just had to have in her band. There are some metal bands with a female member and I'd suspect they weren't thinking about a female when they were auditioning or placing ads. After Forever sure wasn't looking for a female to sing lead. She was hired as a backup singer.

Dragonforce is doing open auditions right now and I'm sure there's a 99% chance they'll get a male. But they aren't prohibiting females from auditioning and I'll bet even if they are set on getting a male, a sufficiently talented female could win the job with an amazing audition tape. And there are some bands who have actually not cared whether they had a male or a female singer(White Skull, Dark Moor).

I'll bet half of the metal bands out there would hire Floor Jansen in a heartbeat, even if they had a male singer prior to her. She's the best female vocalist in the business, IMO.

 

[General Zod]

I think that's true, but I was thinking about it and realizing that even if she did have her mind set on an all-male band, if she auditioned females she might come across one she just had to have in her band.

Very true.

 

[nomisofsiman]

In the end her requirement is stupid, if for no other reason than she could have eliminated the two or three woman who applied, quietly and without anyone ever raising an eyebrow.

I think that's true, but I was thinking about it and realizing that even if she did have her mind set on an all-male band, if she auditioned females she might come across one she just had to have in her band. There are some metal bands with a female member and I'd suspect they weren't thinking about a female when they were auditioning or placing ads. After Forever sure wasn't looking for a female to sing lead. She was hired as a backup singer.

Dragonforce is doing open auditions right now and I'm sure there's a 99% chance they'll get a male. But they aren't prohibiting females from auditioning and I'll bet even if they are set on getting a male, a sufficiently talented female could win the job with an amazing audition tape. And there are some bands who have actually not cared whether they had a male or a female singer(White Skull, Dark Moor).

I'll bet half of the metal bands out there would hire Floor Jansen in a heartbeat, even if they had a male singer prior to her. She's the best female vocalist in the business, IMO.

Well I think when it comes to singers it's a completely different deal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize just how different (for the most part with a few exceptions) female singers are different than male.

 

[adaher]

Oh definitely. I mentioned that early on. Male and female singers sound different, so it's perfectly legitimate to specify sex since you're looking for a certain vocal sound.

It would be like Nocturnal Rites looking for a guitar player but accepting a flute player if he was really good. It just wouldn't sound right. But a female guitarist in Nocturnal Rites, no one would even know unless they read the liner notes or saw them live.