I'm just wondering what most people prefer. I haven't ever tried a Kahler and I'm currently building another 'Frankenstein' guitar (I put my guitars together from different parts etc) and am thinking of putting a Kahler on it. Usually I put Floyd Roses on and in one case I have a Steinberger Trans-trem installed. Whats peoples opinions on Kahler systems?
Floyd Rose vs Kahler Tremolo systems
- Thread starter Regulus
- Start date
sumairetsu
Joker's Favorite
Regulus said:
Are they still making them?
I prefer the Kahler, personally (I have one on one of my Carvins). When you do divebombs on the guitar, the strings don't come up from the fretboard, they simply loosen the tension.
Vital Remains
Just a Man
Kahlers beat the hell out of floyds as far as quality but you can do some crazy fucking shit with a floyd. I have a kramer with a kahler installed on it. its pretty cool.
Vital Remains
Just a Man
sumairetsu said:Are they still making them?
I prefer the Kahler, personally (I have one on one of my Carvins). When you do divebombs on the guitar, the strings don't come up from the fretboard, they simply loosen the tension.
I saw in... i think it was technical guitar magazine, an ad for the new kahler tremolos. They look pretty cool.
Yeah I've heard alot of good things about the Kahler. The best system I've thus far used though is by far the Steinberger Trans-trem. Thats an amazing trem system.
Bryant
Mr. Sleepy
Regulus said:
Kahler is a "Floyd Rose." Before the patent wore out, Kahler used to have to pay FR for the use of their tremola design.
Bryant
Its not a Floyd Rose. Its a different design and it looks different. Its cam operated rather then fulcrum so the strings don't raise or lower when you depress or pull back on the bar
I recently purchased a used Charvel Model 5 equipped with a Kahler tremolo. I must say, I am in love with it. The operation is so smooth, much smoother then a Floyd. Plus, since its cam operated..there is no need to cut a huge whole on the back of the guitar body to fit the springs in, they simply are attached to the bridge! I am very pleased with the Kahler!
sumairetsu
Joker's Favorite
I'd go with the Kahler - it's easier to set up if you're assembling the guit yourself.
I put a Kahler on an old Iceman - great trem, stays in tune well.
Since it's not a floating bridge, you can't flick it & get that flutter effect, but the neighboring strings don't go out of tune when you do those big note-bends (like they do on a Floyd).
Pulling back on the trem is limited, since you "bottom out" pretty quickly. It also won't warble out of tune if you're a heavy-handed palm muter.
I have an OFR on an SL-1, and that's great too ...just needs a little more care when restringing. As long as you keep the bridge level, it'll stay in tune & work great. I like Floyds better than the Kahlers, but that's just my preference.
Also have a Parker Fly Deluxe, and overall that's the best trem from a no-muss no-fuss standpoint.
Bridge can either be (a) floating like a floyd, (b) bend down only (more like the Kahler), or (c) fully fixed - no movement.
Going from (a) to (b) is a flik of the switch, and going from (b) to (c) takes about a minute to tighten the wheel thing.
Restringing & getting to the "stays in tune" point takes about 15 minutes.
I put a Kahler on an old Iceman - great trem, stays in tune well.
Since it's not a floating bridge, you can't flick it & get that flutter effect, but the neighboring strings don't go out of tune when you do those big note-bends (like they do on a Floyd).
Pulling back on the trem is limited, since you "bottom out" pretty quickly. It also won't warble out of tune if you're a heavy-handed palm muter.
I have an OFR on an SL-1, and that's great too ...just needs a little more care when restringing. As long as you keep the bridge level, it'll stay in tune & work great. I like Floyds better than the Kahlers, but that's just my preference.
Also have a Parker Fly Deluxe, and overall that's the best trem from a no-muss no-fuss standpoint.
Bridge can either be (a) floating like a floyd, (b) bend down only (more like the Kahler), or (c) fully fixed - no movement.
Going from (a) to (b) is a flik of the switch, and going from (b) to (c) takes about a minute to tighten the wheel thing.
Restringing & getting to the "stays in tune" point takes about 15 minutes.
I swear by the Kahler. Have had one on my Charvel#4 for over 20
years. Its still in great shape even after years of practice/performing.
I have a Floyd on an older Charvel strat and the Floyd sucks ass. It plays
well enough but setup sucks.
My Kahler doesn't require a locking nut or locking tuners. It stays in tune no
matter what.
I spoke with a rep at Kahler, they should have a 7string model out
next year.
years. Its still in great shape even after years of practice/performing.
I have a Floyd on an older Charvel strat and the Floyd sucks ass. It plays
well enough but setup sucks.
My Kahler doesn't require a locking nut or locking tuners. It stays in tune no
matter what.
I spoke with a rep at Kahler, they should have a 7string model out
next year.
I swear by the Kahler. Have had one on my Charvel#4 for almost 20
years. Its still in great shape even after years of practice/performing.
I have a Floyd on an older Charvel strat and the Floyd sucks ass. It plays
well enough but setup sucks.
My Kahler doesn't require a locking nut or locking tuners. It stays in tune no
matter what.
I spoke with a rep at Kahler, they should have a 7string model out
next year.
years. Its still in great shape even after years of practice/performing.
I have a Floyd on an older Charvel strat and the Floyd sucks ass. It plays
well enough but setup sucks.
My Kahler doesn't require a locking nut or locking tuners. It stays in tune no
matter what.
I spoke with a rep at Kahler, they should have a 7string model out
next year.
Only High end Floyd Roses and all Kahlers stay in tune just fine if set-up correctly for bends. But all Floyd Roses - even the highest end models will go out of tune much quicker faster than a Kahler if you go ape-shit on the whammy bar. I have been a technician for a few years and have extensive experience playing and setting up Floyds and then Kahlers after. But once I tried a Kahler - I was done with FR forever. So here are the reasons that I would not ever again touch a floyd rose with a ten foot pole:
1) pressing too hard on the bridge during palm mutes make it go sharp! lol
2) a massive tone-robbing hole through the body is necessary
3) locking an FR to fixed mode is not a quick turn of an allen key
4) String breakages are whey too catastrophic
5) set up for big dive range reduces range for pulls
6) set-up got large pull range leaves less range for dives
7) fine tuner ratios do not have enough torque
8) strings action is raised during dives
9) cannot adjust saddles independently of global bridge action
10) Noisy! Spring noise makes the long flutter sounds not worth it (the only advantage to a floyd is the crazy flutter).
11) only 4 way adjustable saddles but cannot adjust action independently on saddles unless you use shims which is all just guess work and no mechanism exists to finely raise each saddle independently
12) the entire bridge floats like a teeter totter on the two posts
13) A very long line of connectsion to the back through that monster sized hole
14) set-ups are annoying
15) Cannot change set-ups globally in an instant for different tunings if some other jammers decided to play in a different tuning one day - it takes forever to go through the constant struggle of re adjusting each string.
16) saddles are not 6-way adjustable
17) Kahlers are hundreds of times smoother on whammy bar action
18) On Kahlers its easy to change the rollers to alter the brightness or mids of your tone - swapping from brass, to stainless steel, to even teflon rollers - FRs are more involved when it comes to changing saddles and you have to take the string off
19) Ability to alter spring tension on kahlers
1) pressing too hard on the bridge during palm mutes make it go sharp! lol
2) a massive tone-robbing hole through the body is necessary
3) locking an FR to fixed mode is not a quick turn of an allen key
4) String breakages are whey too catastrophic
5) set up for big dive range reduces range for pulls
6) set-up got large pull range leaves less range for dives
7) fine tuner ratios do not have enough torque
8) strings action is raised during dives
9) cannot adjust saddles independently of global bridge action
10) Noisy! Spring noise makes the long flutter sounds not worth it (the only advantage to a floyd is the crazy flutter).
11) only 4 way adjustable saddles but cannot adjust action independently on saddles unless you use shims which is all just guess work and no mechanism exists to finely raise each saddle independently
12) the entire bridge floats like a teeter totter on the two posts
13) A very long line of connectsion to the back through that monster sized hole
14) set-ups are annoying
15) Cannot change set-ups globally in an instant for different tunings if some other jammers decided to play in a different tuning one day - it takes forever to go through the constant struggle of re adjusting each string.
16) saddles are not 6-way adjustable
17) Kahlers are hundreds of times smoother on whammy bar action
18) On Kahlers its easy to change the rollers to alter the brightness or mids of your tone - swapping from brass, to stainless steel, to even teflon rollers - FRs are more involved when it comes to changing saddles and you have to take the string off
19) Ability to alter spring tension on kahlers
_Mindrust_
Watching the Embers
There is a reason why Kahlers aren't nearly as popular with professional guitarists.
Last edited by a moderator:
You posted a link to a flawed analysis. This is the same guy who in another video says that setting the bridge more forward loosens the springs at the back - when the opposite is true. The real Kahler operation is that setting the bridge further back loosens the springs. He is looking at his bridges all backwards to begin with and he is not a pro tech.
This guy does not even know how to set up a kahler properly. They are finicky bridges, you need to keep the sides of the rollers lubricated every so often, and this guy mentions all this amateur info about using chapstick to help with his problem when chapstick doesn't do anything since there is no friction at the cam... only potential friction at the rollers if you use brass ones which are cheaper (which he is using) especially if you are not keeping the sides of the rollers lubricated with 3 in one oil...
and also steels rollers will never do that, regardless if you lube the sides or not - but it is a good idea, and only the cheap brass which are not finished smoothly are more prone to this if you do not keep the sides of the rollers lubed - as this guy is also using one of those cheap x-trems made over seas. And btw, his videos are only covering a few points... and even his later video which says kahlers do not flutter as long as floyds is also false - he sets his bridge far forward once again - stretching the springs too much - his cam is not at equilibrium where there is an additional second of flutter that would exist on top of his short flutter... there are tons of errors this guy is making man!
Kahlers are like premium exotic sports cars - need a bit more more maintenance but perform whey better. But actually - whey easier to set up - the lubing thing is only needed like once every 1.5 to 2 months.
This guy does not even know how to set up a kahler properly. They are finicky bridges, you need to keep the sides of the rollers lubricated every so often, and this guy mentions all this amateur info about using chapstick to help with his problem when chapstick doesn't do anything since there is no friction at the cam... only potential friction at the rollers if you use brass ones which are cheaper (which he is using) especially if you are not keeping the sides of the rollers lubricated with 3 in one oil...
and also steels rollers will never do that, regardless if you lube the sides or not - but it is a good idea, and only the cheap brass which are not finished smoothly are more prone to this if you do not keep the sides of the rollers lubed - as this guy is also using one of those cheap x-trems made over seas. And btw, his videos are only covering a few points... and even his later video which says kahlers do not flutter as long as floyds is also false - he sets his bridge far forward once again - stretching the springs too much - his cam is not at equilibrium where there is an additional second of flutter that would exist on top of his short flutter... there are tons of errors this guy is making man!
Kahlers are like premium exotic sports cars - need a bit more more maintenance but perform whey better. But actually - whey easier to set up - the lubing thing is only needed like once every 1.5 to 2 months.
Similar threads
