For the gun lovers....

[J.DavisNJ]

Holy fuck Mike, that's nuts...

And honestly, about this notion people have been bringing up of fighting back against a totalitarian regime and such - am I the only one to whom that sounds like some slightly nuts backwoods militiaman talk? I mean, when in the history of the US has that ever had to happen? You seriously believe that people should have guns so they can march onto capitol hill and riddle "the man" full of bullets if he cracks down on us?

And to be clear, I'm only advocating control of assault weapons, not all guns

Heh, I personally am not thinking *that* far into the future and I'd like to think that we are a civilized enough country for that not to happen. Ermin had a practical viewpoint regarding this that stems from where he grew up I believe.


Now, I don't expect to be able to use my rifle to stop an F16 from destroying my house, but if you are in a desperate enough situation and survival really is the only thing on your mind...you will use your weapon. Like I said, I don't envision this happening anytime soon...but who knows?

Our government would really have to disintegrate in a rapid downward spiral for that to happen, but I don't think it's entirely impossible. People scoff when the Third Reich is compared to the current administration in the USA, but in terms of stripping people of their firearms...well. while it might not be the most valid comparison it still makes sense. If you take away the people's means of defending themselves, the government can literally do whatever they want. This is all in extreme circumstances that is.

Who knows what our country will look like in 20-30 years?

It might sound far fetched, but it's something to think about.

-Joe

 

[James Murphy]

No, I understand - but potentially, assault weapons could very easily be used to infringe on the rights of many people, specifically their right to live. And I don't think it's particularly retarded logic Joe; it may be unlikely, but it'd still potentially save lives!

yes... yes indeed... you're just sooo right there... an assault weapon could indeed very easily be used to infringe on the rights of many people to live.

and someone could take their car and drive into your house and kill your whole family.

CAR BAN!!!!

 

[jrt12]

slightly off topic of guns, but directly speakign to the notion of our "freedoms." people only champion freedom when it agrees with their own notion of whats right and good. for example, the same groups here in La-La-Land, California that fight so hard for gay marriage and abortion and all that jazz, are usually the exact same ones trying to ban smoking and trans fats. as it is, its only legal to smoke in the closet, in your basement, with the lights off. I dont even smoke and that shit pisses me off! absolute hypocrisy.

 

[AudioPhile777]

about this notion people have been bringing up of fighting back against a totalitarian regime and such - am I the only one to whom that sounds like some slightly nuts backwoods militiaman talk?

yes. probably because you are of the mentality of "It can't happen here/to us"... that is the mentality that will bring a nation to it's knees...

can i go out on a limb here and assume that you would be all for socialized healthcare?

slightly off topic of guns, but directly speakign to the notion of our "freedoms." people only champion freedom when it agrees with their own notion of whats right and good. for example, the same groups here in La-La-Land, California that fight so hard for gay marriage and abortion and all that jazz, are usually the exact same ones trying to ban smoking and trans fats. as it is, its only legal to smoke in the closet, in your basement, with the lights off. I dont even smoke and that shit pisses me off! absolute hypocrisy.

yeah. same here.

 

[Metaltastic]

yes. probably because you are of the mentality of "It can't happen here/to us"... that is the mentality that will bring a nation to it's knees...

can i go out on a limb here and assume that you would be all for socialized healthcare?

Well that I admit I definitely don't know enough about to comment on (as far as how it would be implemented), but I do feel that given the absurd prices of medical treatment, it's a really tragic and unacceptable thing when people have to die simply because they don't make enough money for some treatment/surgery. So yes, speaking PURELY in theory, I feel everyone should have some basic kind of socially provided healthcare, but that it should be total no frills, and there should be better, more comprehensive options available either to purchase or from employers (as benefits). But as I said, I have no idea how this would/could happen in the US.

 

[JeffTD]

slightly off topic of guns, but directly speakign to the notion of our "freedoms." people only champion freedom when it agrees with their own notion of whats right and good. for example, the same groups here in La-La-Land, California that fight so hard for gay marriage and abortion and all that jazz, are usually the exact same ones trying to ban smoking and trans fats. as it is, its only legal to smoke in the closet, in your basement, with the lights off. I dont even smoke and that shit pisses me off! absolute hypocrisy.

Smoking infringes on other peoples rights, where gay marriage and, depending on your beliefs, abortion (lets not get into that debate) doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

Not to mention the health problems and subsequent medical costs that we, as taxpayers, have to foot the bill for caused by smoking and excessive trans-fats.

I just don't see your argument here as valid.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

that will bring a nation to it's knees... .

Obscure reference to forcing a nation to it's knees:


"WE'LL FORCE KING GEORGE DOWN TO HIS KNEES. CAPITULATION."
*agressive vibrato*

 

[006]

Oh man....don't even get me started on people that bring out the "rights" bs when it's convenient for them...

~006

 

[Metaltastic]

yes... yes indeed... you're just sooo right there... an assault weapon could indeed very easily be used to infringe on the rights of many people to live.

and someone could take their car and drive into your house and kill your whole family.

CAR BAN!!!!

Well, the difference is that cars serve an invaluable purpose (especially in American suburbia), so the risk of the damage they can do is far outweighed by the good - I don't feel the same can be said for fully automatic, high-capacity-mag guns.

 

[Metaltastic]

Smoking infringes on other peoples rights, where gay marriage and, depending on your beliefs, abortion (lets not get into that debate) doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

Not to mention the health problems and subsequent medical costs that we, as taxpayers, have to foot the bill for caused by smoking and excessive trans-fats.

I just don't see your argument here as valid.

Yup, +1

 

[006]

Smoking infringes on other peoples rights...

As a smoker, I'm definitely biased on this point but seriously...this is why we have smoking sections in restaurants here that are completely closed off from non-smoking sections. I understood that when they said it had to be that way a few years back. I understood it when they said ok no smoking indoors at all in restaurants that were in certain city limits, etc. What I don't understand is when they said "ok, no smoking on the patio outside." That is going too far IMO. It's OUTSIDE for fuck's sake. OPEN AIR. WIND.

Abortion, if deemed illegal, does infringe on people's rights. How are you going to tell someone they can't abort a pregnancy? I mean, the good 'ol arguments are still valid (i.e. the rape victim argument, etc.). Banning gay marriage is infringement as well, because we have separation of church and state for a reason If banning gay marriage is put into effect, all it comes down to is the people in power using their religious beliefs to affect others that do not share those beliefs.

Holy fuck this has gone off-topic.

GUNS WOOOOO I miss my old Glock.

~006

 

[spioraid]

My younger brother (aspiring gunsmith...frickin' brilliant lad) just finished making his first flintlock pistol. Bought with his own cash a pistol kit from Dixie GW and put that sucker together with no prior experience with flint locks. We'll be taking that (and a crap load of other cool firearms) up to my cousins place in CT to try 'em out.

Once he has the cash he'll be making a Pennsylvania long rifle with a curly maple stock, Jim Chambers lock and a browned octagonal barrel. Thankfully our cousins are blacksmiths so any extra steel we need make they can do it for free, now we just need to find a whitesmith to make some brass parts for him.

 

[jrt12]

Smoking infringes on other peoples rights, where gay marriage and, depending on your beliefs, abortion (lets not get into that debate) doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

Not to mention the health problems and subsequent medical costs that we, as taxpayers, have to foot the bill for caused by smoking and excessive trans-fats.

I just don't see your argument here as valid.

this has gone WAY off topic, partly my fault. but a couple things... if you bring the taxpayers argument into this, then EVERYTHING is infringing on one another. so that has to be kept out of it. and yes, i agree, lets forgot aborton cuz thats a bag of worms that will ensure we never get back to guns (which is more fun anyway). but nowhere in the constitution/bill or rights/etc, do we have a "right" to marry. we create and interpret things to our benefit when we please and deny it when we dont like it. which was my point in the first place.

i've always been an advocate for more state autonomy and less federal law that overarches and supercedes the state's constitutions and laws. make gay marriage legal in CA and VT and wherever else... actually no. CA just said "NO" the democratic way. and people should respect that, instead of now trying to cry foul when they lose. but let VT and MA and NY or whoever else says its ok have it, and let the dozens of other states who've banned it have it banned. let people move and live where they are comfortable and agree with their laws. whats wrong with that? guns here, not there. abortion here, not there... etc etc...

 

[jrt12]

ok, back to guns... in this day and age of inflation and devaluation of the dollar, there aint a better investment. the value of a gun in an emergency situation only increases exponentially!

in la-la land we're due for the 'big one' anyday now. for some reason, i dont think anyone's gonna be answering 911. just look at new orleans... i wonder how many of those small business owners and even home owners wish they had one in the aftermath. the company i used to work for used to preach "emergency preparedness" for homeowners. in my mind, that just meant gun, esp in my neighborhood...

 

[James Murphy]

Well, the difference is that cars serve an invaluable purpose (especially in American suburbia), so the risk of the damage they can do is far outweighed by the good - I don't feel the same can be said for fully automatic, high-capacity-mag guns.

oh so then if, way out there in suburbia, 5 gang members invade your home... you wouldn't see the advantage in being able to defend yourself without the additional worry of being killed while reloading? it happens... happened 8 miles from my own home, less than one year ago.

your arguments hold no water.... first of all, only law abiding citizens would obey those laws. what is it about that which otherwise seemingly rational people fail to understand??

hey.. it's your right to be under-prepared should the worst happen, if that's what you wanna do... but keep your votes outta my rights man.

 

[AudioPhile777]

first of all, only law abiding citizens would obey those laws. what is it about that which otherwise seemingly rational people fail to understand??

hey.. it's your right to be under-prepared should the worst happen, if that's what you wanna do... but keep your votes outta my rights man.

You said it better than I did... :Smug:

 

[Metaltastic]

your arguments hold no water.... first of all, only law abiding citizens would obey those laws. what is it about that which otherwise seemingly rational people fail to understand??

Yeah, fair enough - I suppose I would accept that there should be no bans on weapon ownership only if I could be certain that those bans didn't in any way help keep assault weapons out of the hands of criminals (which I doubt only because I feel if they were legal, there would be that many more in circulation that could be "acquired" by said brigands)

 

[Wolfeman]

@Wolfeman:
That gun looks really portable. Do you always walk around with it? Isn´t it annoying with metal detectors everywhere? Sorry, I know very little about guns, in my head the best gun in the world is the MP5 with silencer because that´s what I use on Call Of Duty 4 ;P

There are very few places you can actually go into with it on... If I'm out walking around, it's on me... if I'm driving, it's on me....

In Ohio you can not take it into schools, airports, banks, government buildings, any place that sells liquor(bars, grocery store, restaurants)... Everything else is fair game unless they have a 'No Concealed Carry' sign posted at the door....

Funny thing about airports though, you can hand carry a gun into the airport so long as it is unloaded and in a double locked case. Throw it in your checked baggage and off you go fully legal!!!

 

[Metaltastic]

Everything else is fair game unless they have a 'No Concealed Carry' sign posted at the door....

Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen one of those; maybe I just never noticed...

 

[Wolfeman]

Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen one of those; maybe I just never noticed...

I see them on every door in Ohio