? for the pros concerning the dos and don'ts for guitar tones.

[MetalSound]

also listened to some stuff that doesn't have good guitar tone (Metallica's Master of Puppets, And Justice for All, Cowboys from Hell

?!???

i think it´s all about personal taste. in my opinion these are all very good guitar tones ´cause they match the music style perfectly.

and to contribute to this thread: most of the beginners or noob guitar players tend to overuse their bass knob on their guitar amp.
leave some space for the bass.

 

[xFkx]

Great thread. I always struggle to achieve this kind of grind/bite that andy did here:



(Devildriver - Clouds over california)

With good enough picking I cen get kinda close, but it's not there yet. I assume this grind also depends on the amp's character but i'd love to get something similar from my cobra

 

[guitarguru777]

Guitarguru777,

You wouldn't by any chance happen to have any clips of those V30s A/B to the GT65s, do you?

i was about to say no .... but I have a demo I am remixing that you can defeintiely hear the difference on .. wait no I dont, I forgot the original version was Peavey Valveking

I am tied up this week, but I can post some comparison clips next week.

 

[Ermz]

With good enough picking I cen get kinda close, but it's not there yet. I assume this grind also depends on the amp's character but i'd love to get something similar from my cobra

Combining a Rec with 5150 really gets you in the ballpark for that kinda sound. It really is all about the playing style and amps. I've run the gauntlet of trying to get amps to sound like something that isn't within their 'sweet spot' and it's not a very fun endeavor.

Also, Harry's pretty much on the ball here. That is exactly the reason that I NEVER mix with the band present. Never ever, ever, ever, ever....

 

[Omega_Void]

...I would usually rather have the guitars sounding good first and then work on a bass tone that compliments them (and usually mixed much lower).

I think that was how they did it in the eighties.

 

[reg3n]

I may not be the type of 'pro' you're looking to hear from but...

Getting the mid relationship right is pivotal. Getting guitars to sit in a mix in a useful way is immensely difficult. They are very broadband instruments, and each range needs to be tailored in a useful way. Sometimes you'll get lucky and have all of this from the performer and/or amp tone. Most of the time you won't.

Above all, the ratios of various midrange bands are the most important. 300-600 needs to be controlled to reduce mud, but if overdone will make the guitars sound thin and weak. 600 to 1k needs to be prominent enough so you hear the note, but not so strong as to cloud the ambiance of the mix nor sound 'flat' or 'cardboard'. 1k to 2.5k needs to be controlled so they don't sound too 'pushed', yet if it's overdone, they will sound hollow. 2.5k to 4k needs to be controlled so that they don't get in the way of the vocal. Above this there is all sorts of fizz going around that is source-dependent and needs to be annihilated for the tone to have any chance.

The important thing is to not gauge its 'largeness' when solo'd. I've noticed a trend where many newer guys will overcompensate for poor mid-dispersion in a guitar tone by leaving many lows in it. This is the best way to make your mix suck. Other people with poor perspective will gauge the tone solo'd and say 'wow, that sounds so huge', yet it will sound anything but when put together with other instruments.

When solo'd, a guitar tone should sound relatively thin. This implies that you actually have the bass guitar doing something meaningful within your mix.

The very best and largest mixes almost always have the thinnest and most separated individual elements. It's just the way physics works, it's just the way our hearing works, and it's just the way frequency masking is.

On gain... there is no simple solution. Less isn't always more. More isn't always more. There is however a nice middle ground, a sweet spot that sings well for the material that's being played, and for the amps its being played through. Too little gain will lead to under-powered, hollow mixes, too much will lead to an unintelligible mess.

I swear i'll stick this to my wall tonight and memorize, thanks a lot for the detailed post Ermz! It's really helpful, and really appreciated

 

[cloy26]

If being really dead honest, nobody really gives a shit about guitars except the musicians/engineers/producers, which is about 1% of the listeners, except maybe 2-5% on the metalscene. Just don't obstruct the vocals and bass, and you're good to go.

The great majority of the regular people who listen to the music only listen to the vocals, and everybody who likes to dance has atleast some sort of rhythm sense, so thats why if the regular people can't hear the vocals or the beat clearly, they usually think the the song/mix sucks. That is why the rap and rnb music is really "hot" today; it's almost only about the vocals and the beat.

I completely understand what you are saying and you are right, but that doesn't change the fact that if Brian Hood was to mic something and then I mic something, 100% of the time, his mix with his tone is going to sound better, fuller, more powerful and constitutes a heavier listening experience to the listener. When you hear the right tone, in the right context, it brings the song to a whole 'notha levo.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

What settings should, generally, be avoided for instance, and what settings, again in general, work better for the guitar tone in a full band setting.

Anything with the gain and bass dimed is crap in my book.
Anything with the mids on 0 is also crap.
Anything with the highs over 3 o clock... again horrible.

Some things are subjective IMO, like the presence knob on a 5150 (some people leave it on 0, some like myself like to use it a little).

 

[Josh Burgess]

I think that was how they did it in the eighties.

I said low, not nonexistent.

Just check out Andy's mixes. He has said before that he recommends getting the guitar amp sounding great in the room first, then getting it great in the mix, and then fitting in a bass tone last. He usually mixes the bass pretty low too... You feel it, but it doesn't stick out too much... it's more just a solid support, still letting most of the impact come from the guitars. Some people like bigger, rounder more present bass tones, but I dig keeping them lower. sounds cleaner and more controlled to me.

 

[greyskull]

Anything with the gain and bass dimed is crap in my book.
Anything with the mids on 0 is also crap.
Anything with the highs over 3 o clock... again horrible.

Some things are subjective IMO, like the presence knob on a 5150 (some people leave it on 0, some like myself like to use it a little).

fwiw, on my 800, the mid knob does so little that putting it an 0 is actually sometimes what the doctor ordered. eve if it does make me feel dirty inside

 

[Robert W]

Combining a Rec with 5150 really gets you in the ballpark for that kinda sound. It really is all about the playing style and amps. I've run the gauntlet of trying to get amps to sound like something that isn't within their 'sweet spot' and it's not a very fun endeavor.

Also, Harry's pretty much on the ball here. That is exactly the reason that I NEVER mix with the band present. Never ever, ever, ever, ever....

Slightly OT, but supposing you do that, and the band comes back and hates the mix you made?

 

[Ermz]

Never happened thus far in 6 years.

If they dislike some aspects of it, I go in for another revision, this is normal. If they outright hate it, then they're free to take the project to someone else.

 

[Robert W]

Ermz wrote,

Above all, the ratios of various midrange bands are the most important. 300-600 needs to be controlled to reduce mud, but if overdone will make the guitars sound thin and weak. 600 to 1k needs to be prominent enough so you hear the note, but not so strong as to cloud the ambiance of the mix nor sound 'flat' or 'cardboard'. 1k to 2.5k needs to be controlled so they don't sound too 'pushed', yet if it's overdone, they will sound hollow. 2.5k to 4k needs to be controlled so that they don't get in the way of the vocal.

When you say "controlled" and "prominent", how much of a cut/boost are you talking about in general?

 

[::XeS::]

I think Controlled=Cut and Prominent=Boost. How much is up to you

 

[hurdy]

True, but when you think about it, in the metal scene, almost everyone at least dabbles in playing guitar or another instrument. I'm pretty sure it's the genre that has the largest percentage of the audience that cares about the production and the tones.

+100