Found maybe the coolest plugin to aid dual micing

[ahjteam]

I found that when dual micing you can get this slight phaseyness and harsh fizzyness. If you shift either mic by 1-5 samples forward you can reduce this by a lot, I found that Voxengo Sample Delay (or nowadays it's called Sound Delay) does the job pretty well:

http://www.voxengo.com/product/sounddelay/

 

[Hipelius]

How about setting the mikes up better?

 

[xFkx]

Duh

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

All daws should just fucking have this. Pro Tools does, cubase does. Why on earth doesn't everything else?

 

[ahjteam]

How about setting the mikes up better?

Hi Olli

I have tried it, but when you are dual micing moving the microphone makes a lot more drastic changes to the tone and phase than moving one track further a few samples if you have them "almost there" for that perfect tone you are looking for. Michael Wagener (produced bands like Metallica, Mötley Crüe, Accept, Megadeth, Ozzy Osbourne, Stryper, Poison, Alice Cooper, Extreme, King's X, Dokken, White Lion, Skid Row and many more...) said that he uses Little Labs IBP to do the same thing.

Originally Posted by Andi Rauscher
- do you use a IBP on guitars? how do you control the phase? only by ear or do you use a measurement tool?

Ears only, you can't really measure it, what would be the reference for the measurement? Go by what you hear. If you like it - leave it, if you don't like it - change it. I do use an IBP, especially when I don't have a lot of time to align the mics. The beauty of the IBP is that you can sit comfortably in the control room and get your sound by dialing it in, wheras without the IBP you have to move mics the old fashioned way

 

[BLUElightCory]

Hi Olli

I have tried it, but when you are dual micing moving the microphone makes a lot more drastic changes to the tone and phase than moving one track further a few samples if you have them "almost there" for that perfect tone you are looking for. Michael Wagener (produced bands like Metallica, Mötley Crüe, Accept, Megadeth, Ozzy Osbourne, Stryper, Poison, Alice Cooper, Extreme, King's X, Dokken, White Lion, Skid Row and many more...) said that he uses Little Labs IBP to do the same thing.

The IBP doesn't slide tracks back and forth in time; it's an allpass filter that allows you to continually adjust the polarity of the signal a full 180 degrees (rather than just a back-and-forth 180 degree polarity reversal). This is a different process, as phase is frequency dependent (which means that it can't be fixed just by sliding tracks in time - though sliding tracks does alter the phase relationship of the tracks).

 

[Soundlurker]

All daws should just fucking have this. Pro Tools does, cubase does. Why on earth doesn't everything else?

+1, It's next to the volume and pan controls.

And another +1 to BLUElightCory, changing the polarity is different than simply changing the phase relationship between two audio sources.

 

[ahjteam]

The IBP doesn't slide tracks back and forth in time; it's an allpass filter that allows you to continually adjust the polarity of the signal a full 180 degrees (rather than just a back-and-forth 180 degree polarity reversal). This is a different process, as phase is frequency dependent (which means that it can't be fixed just by sliding tracks in time - though sliding tracks does alter the phase relationship of the tracks).

See the picture from the IBP page (I linked it below)... Seems like exactly the same method as I explained; Shifting the time forward just a few samples/nanoseconds to adjust the phase to match. Or then I'm just understanding the operation of the IBP unit very differently than you guys.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

Already hear about this plug but for an oposite use like integrating tape machine with DAW (check Brad video on gearslutz about it).

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

How about setting the mikes up better?

Ever miced a guitar amp with two mics? Or just have a habit of ignoring phase aligning?

See the picture from the IBP page (I linked it below)... Seems like exactly the same method as I explained; Shifting the time forward just a few samples/nanoseconds to adjust the phase to match. Or then I'm just understanding the operation of the IBP unit very differently than you guys.

Cory and Shadow_Walker have a point, it's not the same thing. Think about when you flip the polarity reverse button on a mixing board. It doesn't just delay the signal. Check out the topic on Audiokirja, IIRC it had quite a nice explanation of this.

 

[BLUElightCory]

See the picture from the IBP page (I linked it below)... Seems like exactly the same method as I explained; Shifting the time forward just a few samples/nanoseconds to adjust the phase to match. Or then I'm just understanding the operation of the IBP unit very differently than you guys.

Notice that in this diagram there is still a delay between the DI and mic'd track AFTER being processed by the IBP? That is because the IBP didn't move the tracks in time. It only affects the polarity of the signal (the waveshape in the diagram). If you want the two waveforms to meet/be right on top of each other you have to time-slip it in your DAW (enough to close the gap marked "phase shift" in the diagram).

 

[BLUElightCory]

For those who are interested, there is a detailed explanation of phase and how phase adjustment devices (like the IBP) work in the IBP manual.

Here it is:
IBP Manual

Enjoy!

 

[AboutBlank]

http://www.uaudio.com/products/software/ibp/index.html

Haven't used this plug but it should be nearly the same(for UAD Users).
Just wanna throw it in...

 

[jipchen]

I think this is near to what the IBP (IBP Jr.) does, but software: http://www.voxengo.com/product/pha979/
I'm pretty interested, does someone have experiences with the plugin?

I find dual micing very hard, and moving the mic to avoid phase issues won't to the job most times, because you'll completely change the sound of that single mic if you move it, not just erase phase issues. The Little Labs IBP is too fucking expensive in Europe.

 

[Ermz]

This plug could be really cool for those times (always) when I can't be arsed manually nudging each drum sample track after I've printed it.

But yes, phase shift and nudging tracks is a different matter. Try phase inversing a kick track. Now that your initial transient spike 'sucks' air instead of 'pushing' it, it feels wrong doesn't it? Try replicating that with nudging.

 

[punkrockacademyfightsong]

I use the sample delay in Reaper all the time on multi miced instruments. Just zoom in til you see the offset, select the time difference, set clock display to samples and add that amount of delay in negative to the track that is later.

I used to never align my room mics this way because I thought it would screw up the depth of the room but I noticed I needed a lot less EQ on all my channels if I got them phase alligned correctly.

 

[LeSedna]

This plug could be really cool for those times (always) when I can't be arsed manually nudging each drum sample track after I've printed it.

But yes, phase shift and nudging tracks is a different matter. Try phase inversing a kick track. Now that your initial transient spike 'sucks' air instead of 'pushing' it, it feels wrong doesn't it? Try replicating that with nudging.

Of course, nudging and phase shifting is not the same, it would be only if the signal was a single sinusoidal that was infinite in time