General Mastering

[loxrox33]

Hey guys i was just wondering if anyone had some tips on mastering, or if anyone knows what joey does etc. Does he do ALL of the mastering? does he get his mixes to commercial loudness or does he send that to the record label to do?

I know there's a few loudness tricks such as Gclip etc.

i dont want a basic tutorial of how to master i know what to do i just want to see if anyone has any tricks to shed some light on the subject as i haven't found a thread exactly liek this yet.

e.g. all of my mixes are always too dull. they lack life and i'm always eqing a whole bunch of top end on the master bus to get it to joeys or any other commercial mixes eq.

also what program does he use does anyone know? i've had a look at wavelab it looks pretty good, i've tried using sound forge and i think the whole sony product line is terrible and quite hard to use in my opinion. For now i've been using reaper which i know is HORRIBLE because all of joeys mixes it says are clipping, and i've heard about this horrible fader system that reaper has. I mix and record in cubase which i've also heard the master bus clips early, so thought that was pretty useless for mastering also.

so basically, summing up i'd just like to know

- what program to use (accurate metering etc)
- what level to have the tracks going out of cubase
- what plugins could be good (atm i use the ssl bus compressor into and eq, into gclip, into an L3, and i can get almost a commercial sound like this)

also i'd like to add i KNOW that a lot of it is the recording process, e.g. getting good overhead sounds from the source, same with vocals and other mic'd stuff so you don't need to tell me that.

thanks heaps!

 

[timislegend]

sounds like you already know everything.

 

[setyouranchor]

http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/katz_1999_secret_mastering.pdf

Also, I'd buy Bob Katz - Mastering Audio. I started reading it today and its already amazing

 

[timislegend]

joey doesn't clip the master... i think he has made it clear that he only clips drums.



*correct me if i'm wrong

 

[Joel4662]

For now i've been using reaper which i know is HORRIBLE because all of joeys mixes it says are clipping, and i've heard about this horrible fader system that reaper has.

woah woah what? this is the first i'm hearing of this!
as for mastering, i don't go by peak values but try to get my RMS up to about -8 without hearing clipping, i'm not sure if it's the "Right" way but it works for me. gets my loudness and i don't have distortion, even though i "Peak" at like +3 in reaper.

but that's me getting off topic, what's this about reapers fader system? someone have like a link to share or somethin?

ALSO a +1 on Bob Katz' book it's well worth the money

 

[timislegend]

I misread the initial post I think/am retarded. Although recently I think he said he isn't compressing mixes now and just multibanding instead? Perhaps somethings changed, idk/I am retarded.

no.

he says he limits everything (in his mixes) instead of compression; except for vocals and drums.


pretty sure he still uses ssl bus comp.

 

[timislegend]

yes... compressing an entire mix (ie. bus compression).

as opposed to compressing individual instruments.

 

[olif8]

Okay dude I'm stopping here.

 

[Trevoire520]

i've been using reaper which i know is HORRIBLE because all of joeys mixes it says are clipping, and i've heard about this horrible fader system that reaper has.

If Joey's mixes are finalized at 0dbfs then of course reaper is going to say it's clipping. Don't assume that Reaper is shit just because it says his mixes clip.
Understand that in the digital world that more than one consecutive sample encoded at 0db = clipping. It might not be audibly clipping and crackling, but to a digtial meter in a DAW it is technically clipping.

I mix and record in cubase which i've also heard the master bus clips early, so thought that was pretty useless for mastering also.

The master bus on any DAW will always clip at the same level, 0dbfs. I'm pretty sure Joey uses Cubase for mixing, and I'm assuming he does so for mastering aswell?

all of my mixes are always too dull. they lack life and i'm always eqing a whole bunch of top end on the master bus to get it to joeys or any other commercial mixes eq.

I'll admit this is something I find with my mixes alot also, I think it's down to a combination of excessive low end in sounds (particularly guitars) when tracking and just generally an aversion to having stuff sounding "too thin" while mixing.
I'd love to hear some other peoples input on this.

 

[wetpenny]

If Joey's mixes are finalized at 0dbfs then of course reaper is going to say it's clipping. Don't assume that Reaper is shit just because it says his mixes clip.
Understand that in the digital world that more than one consecutive sample encoded at 0db = clipping. It might not be audibly clipping and crackling, but to a digtial meter in a DAW it is technically clipping.


The master bus on any DAW will always clip at the same level, 0dbfs. I'm pretty sure Joey uses Cubase for mixing, and I'm assuming he does so for mastering aswell?



I'll admit this is something I find with my mixes alot also, I think it's down to a combination of excessive low end in sounds (particularly guitars) when tracking and just generally an aversion to having stuff sounding "too thin" while mixing.
I'd love to hear some other peoples input on this.

so would i !!

 

[timislegend]

I'll admit this is something I find with my mixes alot also, I think it's down to a combination of excessive low end in sounds (particularly guitars) when tracking and just generally an aversion to having stuff sounding "too thin" while mixing.
I'd love to hear some other peoples input on this.

-active pickups
-new strings
-great picking technique
-tracking with clarity in mind (accurate gain staging)
-editing tightly but parented to the drums
-don't over do it with gain (distortion)
-using eq like a razor blade
-mild multiband compression
-skillful limiting

also ...not just by itself but the guitars will really shine with optimal mastering (multiband comp etc.) and most importantly how the guitars reside in the mix.

is it me ... or does it seem like everything i just said was obvious?

hope it helps though!

 

[loxrox33]

If Joey's mixes are finalized at 0dbfs then of course reaper is going to say it's clipping. Don't assume that Reaper is shit just because it says his mixes clip.
Understand that in the digital world that more than one consecutive sample encoded at 0db = clipping. It might not be audibly clipping and crackling, but to a digtial meter in a DAW it is technically clipping.

Hey thanks heaps for all the replies guys this is a seriously good forum i've learnt so much!
anyways, yea sorry i didn't realise that you can actually clip your master and have absolutely no audbile distortion i thought it would artifcat some things in small portions, in that case i take back what i say about reaper, because i always had my mixes holding at -0.1 but ill try clipping it and see what it sounds like.

the reference to the reaper fader http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1242

i admit i hadn't read this thoroughly i just assumed it may have been why it said joeys mixes were clipping. sorry for the commotion but thanks heaps for the advice!

 

[OneDaySky]

I'm pretty sure Joey uses Cubase for mixing, and I'm assuming he does so for mastering aswell?

Yup

 

[Leavit]

joey doesn't clip the master... i think he has made it clear that he only clips drums.



*correct me if i'm wrong

He acctually does leave some clipping. At 0.1 or 0.2 db's or something. Its not very unusual.

EDIT*

And you can't really hear it ofc! And also Listen to Miss may i's new album. You can acctually hear the clipping