MASTERING

[Andrewonrepeat]

I usually record everything myself and master it, just wondering what kind of plugins are useful for limiting. Right now I use Logic Adaptive Limiter but I cant stand what it does to the mix. It gives an almost "Clipping" sound but not quite. If you have any suggestions for mastering chains let me know!

I did the below clip w SSL COMP and LOGIC AD LIMITER

ahj edit:

 

[OneDaySky]

IZotope Ozone on the post fader inserts on the 2 buss = s great limiting experience

 

[AndrewB]

Your mix shouldn't be so loud that it's already going over 0 db before mastering. That's what is giving it that "clipping" sound. I'd suggest going through the gain staging of your mix to make sure that none of the tracks are getting too loud on their own.

Before I mix anything, or put any effects on anything, I make sure that each track by itself is peaking at around -16 db. Then, when I add plug-ins and effects and whatnot, I try to adjust the output volume to match the volume that was there before the plugin (in other words, make sure that the volume of the track without the plugin is the same as it is with the plugin). This is will help with A/B-ing and it should keep track volumes reasonable. Then, if you need to make a track louder or softer, you can use the fader pretty freely.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

as an aside - what are you guys hitting for gain reduction on your master limiting? I always feel like I'm hitting way too hard but I can't get it loud any other way.

 

[Seth Munson]

-2 DBs is normal GR for me.
Proper gain staging through the 2buss helps a tremendous amount.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

-2 DBs is normal GR for me.
Proper gain staging through the 2buss helps a tremendous amount.

holy shit seriously? like, for your standard "commercial" level loudness?

I'm at like.. 7+ db on snare hits...

 

[RedDog]

There's a loudness thread somewhere. Most of the time my individual tracks congeal on the master at about -20 to about -15 RMS. from there, it's color compression, get it pumping and glue'd, multi-comp and surgical EQ. Enter two GClips and whatever brickwall I want, making sure I don't compress over 3 dB on any stage. Compress a bit, raise it up, compress a bit, raise it up, loudness made easy. then a brickwall to slam that shit down so it'll fit in an mp3.

Now, that's not exactly called mastering, but it gets pretty fuckin' loud.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

man. after messing around with this a bunch, I managed to get it down to like 5db reduction. and it's still not as loud as I would like it to be.

 

[kool98769]

man. after messing around with this a bunch, I managed to get it down to like 5db reduction. and it's still not as loud as I would like it to be.

Clip?
If you can't get it to where you want to me loudness wise, I would assume either your snare is too loud, or you have too much low end in your mix.

 

[ahjteam]

-2 DBs is normal GR for me.
Proper gain staging through the 2buss helps a tremendous amount.

Yup same here. I used to struggle with this and do something ridiculous like -10dB on the master and then wondered why it was pumping like hell, now I'm doing all the individual soft clipping on earlier stages and the masterbus limiter is usually hitting between -1 and -3dB per snare hit and usually that's it and now my mixes are only like 1dB quieter when it comes to RMS, but overall they sound as loud or louder because of better gain staging and more efficient spectral distribution. Subdrops are still a bitch and I usually let them clip the master

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

that's actually mind blowing to me. I'll have to post some clips tomorrow - I have noticed that if I take the limiter off and listen to the mix, the mix falls apart. the snare is basically CRANKED and everything else is just, whatever. but the snare won't cut through no matter what I do unless it's absolutely slamming the limiter. it doesn't SOUND terrible once the limiter is back on but I'm sure it could be a whole lot better...maybe this is why I always feel like my mixes are lacking energy.

 

[ahjteam]

that's actually mind blowing to me. I'll have to post some clips tomorrow - I have noticed that if I take the limiter off and listen to the mix, the mix falls apart. the snare is basically CRANKED and everything else is just, whatever. but the snare won't cut through no matter what I do unless it's absolutely slamming the limiter. it doesn't SOUND terrible once the limiter is back on but I'm sure it could be a whole lot better...maybe this is why I always feel like my mixes are lacking energy.

Well why don't you just slam JUST the snare by itself on it's own track?

 

[mikeydavies]

L1!

 

[bassguy]

that's actually mind blowing to me. I'll have to post some clips tomorrow - I have noticed that if I take the limiter off and listen to the mix, the mix falls apart. the snare is basically CRANKED and everything else is just, whatever. but the snare won't cut through no matter what I do unless it's absolutely slamming the limiter. it doesn't SOUND terrible once the limiter is back on but I'm sure it could be a whole lot better...maybe this is why I always feel like my mixes are lacking energy.

I used to have this same problem, I'd mix the song, and then I'd master in the same session. The more I compressed to get it louder, the more my snare dissapeared and everything became smaller sounding. So I'd keep turning the snare up until it was back in the mix. Take the L1 or whatever off and the snare is so much louder than anything else in the mix. The trick is to only use a little bit of compression and get your loudness other ways. I use GClip to get stuff sounding loud, and you might also wanna try a softclipper on the snare, can sometimes help in a dense mix. People's opinions on using gclip on snares tend to be really mixed, but all I have to say for it is it works, so why not.

Also to the OP, as was said way up in the page it's because your mix is actually clipping somewhere that everything is getting distorted. Check the output in all your plugins, and set your master fader at unity and look to see if there's clipping anywhere in the mix, and if there is it's easy to fix by just doing some better gain staging (unless of course you've recorded something too hot and it clipped on the way in)

 

[Seth Munson]

that's actually mind blowing to me. I'll have to post some clips tomorrow - I have noticed that if I take the limiter off and listen to the mix, the mix falls apart. the snare is basically CRANKED and everything else is just, whatever. but the snare won't cut through no matter what I do unless it's absolutely slamming the limiter. it doesn't SOUND terrible once the limiter is back on but I'm sure it could be a whole lot better...maybe this is why I always feel like my mixes are lacking energy.

In my experiences, what works for me is get the mix sounding exactly how I want it before the master and then I take the 2track and master it like I would for other clients.

Not doing this was my mistake for years, because I would constantly be switching back and forth saying "can I fix this in the master or should I fix this in the mix?" but once I did not have that option anymore everything became we easier to handle.

Btw for snares and stuff with heavy transients, you really need to know how to work your 2buss comp to tame everything. That way you dont need to crank the snare so the limiter doesnt rape it.

 

[Goodfellas453]

In my experiences, what works for me is get the mix sounding exactly how I want it before the master and then I take the 2track and master it like I would for other clients.

2track? two tracks? like you mix into two tracks? then master the loudness off of those?

 

[Goodfellas453]

i think i do it wrong, i would mix low starting with the bass slammed at -18 and mix around it, then i have a basic master chain that i tweak until its loud and sounds huge, like i have and l3 multi mazimizer then eq then L1...

 

[Seth Munson]

2track? two tracks? like you mix into two tracks? then master the loudness off of those?

2track is a stupid recording term for a bounced stereo WAV of the whole song.

 

[Goodfellas453]

oh ok, so you mix down just the mix (which would be pretty quiet) do you have a typical set volume that that is at before you master it?

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

In my experiences, what works for me is get the mix sounding exactly how I want it before the master and then I take the 2track and master it like I would for other clients.

Not doing this was my mistake for years, because I would constantly be switching back and forth saying "can I fix this in the master or should I fix this in the mix?" but once I did not have that option anymore everything became we easier to handle.

Btw for snares and stuff with heavy transients, you really need to know how to work your 2buss comp to tame everything. That way you dont need to crank the snare so the limiter doesnt rape it.

maybe I'll have to go back to this. That's how I used to do it back in the day, and then somewhere along the line I just started using my mastering chain right out of the gate. I liked how easy it was to compare to other mixes that way - but maybe it was the wrong path to take.

ps. I do clip my snare by itself, pretty hard, and I still have this massive gain reduction problem pretty much no matter what I do. Should I try faster attack times on my 2bus compressor or something?