General Tom EQ tips?

[nwright]

So, I've read and searched and read some more, but I have a terrible time EQ'ing drums, at least I think I do. I always revert back to the natural drum tones with hardly any EQ at all.

Do any of you guys have "rules of thumb" you tend to follow in regards to EQ'ing toms from the highest to the floor tom? Seems like I read a lot about scooping or cutting a bit of mids, but for toms, mine end up sounding like all attack and a loose fat bottom...Or mostly just attack. I want huge sounding toms. When I do get them to sound good, they don't have a huge punch, but they have a good tone, if that makes sense. I'd love to find the line between good tone and good punch.

I'm downloading Andy's Chimaira tom samples, and he said there was just a hint of EQ going in on these. To me, I can't pick out anything I'd change...They sound good as is. What do you guys hear in toms that you always or very often tend to EQ?

 

[Torniojaws]

If it sounds good, then you don't need to do anything. Never do something "just because", always listen to the raw thing first and only start adding effects if you *know* it doesn't work raw. First think what's wrong with it, and go from there.

Sometimes it happens you don't need to do anything to something you recorded

 

[joeymusicguy]

start with compression

-20 db threshold depending on the source

4:1 - 8:1 ratio

with about 10 ms attack or less (the less the attack, the bigger it seems)
and 50 - 100 ms release depending on the speed of hits on that particular song

after compression and getting make up gain sorted out, start with eq (eq after compression, in the chain)

cut some mids, do this with a scooped Q, try to use a good eq plugin that emulates a real hardware one, so you dont end up doing a radical eq that isnt very possible / pleasing to the ear

listen closely to the tom on solo, and start by dropping 800 hz using a Q of 3. if its starting to sound better, raise it back up then drop 500 hz and listen. compare the differences between these two and decide which is best.

some toms benefit from dropping 400 hz too, it just depends on how it was tuned, and how big the shell was...

then for small toms, add 3db - 6db boost anywhere from 100hz - 150hz
for mid toms, 80hz - 100hz
for low toms, 60hz - 80hz

use a small q for this, because wider q's will add too much bass to the toms. this will bring out the low octave of the tom's note, and pack some punch in the mix (they'll stick out!). do this individually for each tom on each tom track.

after this, you're going to need a compression bus to send all of your drums too, kick, snare, and toms. you want to aux send out from your drum track channels to this bus, and do heavy compression on this bus. make it half volume, this will fill the void and make the drums huge.

then you're going to definately need reverb to make the snare and the toms larger than life. if you dont, they're just compressed hits. reverb adds the necessary body and tails to the hits that make the kit bigger than it is on tape. do the reverb individually for each drum track (dont send from the drum compression bus!)

key bass frequencies for drum tones

kick: 60 - 80 hz
snare: 150 - 250 hz
hi tom: 100 - 150 hz
mid tom: 80 - 100 hz
low tom: 60 - 80 hz

popular frequencies for attack:
kick: 3khz - 8khz
snare: 5khz - 10khz
hi tom: 3khz (vintage) - 10khz (metallica)
mid tom: same
low tom: same

if you are working with drum mic's and a real kit, watch the 800hz - 4khz area, this can make your drums sound cheap if you dont cut. depends on your mic's and mic pre's.

 

[LSD-Studio]

I usually compress them with a rather long attack (25ms or so) and a to get the hit thru and make them sound as if they would have been hit harder.

eq:
find the fundamental an boost, boost at like 3-5k, cut somewhere between 300 and 1k (all depending on the tom)

sometimes I setup a group I send'em to for some upward compression, compress that one to fuckery and add to the original track

 

[Jaymz]

I thought compression always goes AFTER the EQ or anything else?

 

[AudioPhile777]

I thought compression always goes AFTER the EQ or anything else?

In audio recording, there isn't an "always".

the only exception I've been bear witness to is, "Always charge shitty bands more than good bands." at least thats how I see it work 'round here...

 

[lepersmeesa]

The chain usually is gate, compressor, eq.

 

[AudioPhile777]

The chain usually is gate, compressor, eq.

I want a second opinion... get me another doctor...

I've heard that it goes gate, eq, comp.

 

[nwright]

Thanks for the tips. I'll be trying out the EQ tips right now...I feel I have a good handle on compression, but the EQ tips are great. Thanks for the in depth reply Joey.

 

[egan.]

Personally I (generally) gate and compress post eq for drums. I almost always HP stuff and I don't want the things I cut out of the eq effecting when my gates open or when my compression acts.
Obviously this is just me. YMMV.

 

[ffaudio]

People that are asking about EQing before Comping, remember that any boosts you make in frequency will be direcly effected right after by the compressor. Boost a bunch of 5k and then the comp will just smash it back down. That's why people generally EQ after compressing.

There are always exceptions.

 

[LSD-Studio]

People that are asking about EQing before Comping, remember that any boosts you make in frequency will be direcly effected right after by the compressor. Boost a bunch of 5k and then the comp will just smash it back down. That's why people generally EQ after compressing.

There are always exceptions.

that's why ppl generally eq BEFORE compression

that way you can make more drastic changes and they still sound natural

but you're right, it always depends on the source, with vox for ex I generally do the major compression before the EQ.....

 

[nwright]

Well, after some experimenting, I'm finally getting somewhere. I can't thank you guys enough. I'm one of those people that it helps to have a reference as to what others do, that way I can mimic it, see why they did it and then from there experiment on my own and find what I personally like. Starting from scratch without clues as to what frequencies to look at makes climbing the hill that much harder.

As far as EQ and compression go, I'm finding I like EQ after compressing. As others have said if you make EQ changes before comping, it squashes it back down...I hear what LSD is saying, but for me I end up fighting the comp in an effort to get to my EQ goal. And, making drastic changes at any single point in the chain tends to make my mixes sound bad, so for me the idea of drastic EQ changes and the comping doesn't work. With experience I'm sure I'll see the benefit of both and when a mix calls for it.

 

[ffaudio]

that's why ppl generally eq BEFORE compression

that way you can make more drastic changes and they still sound natural

but you're right, it always depends on the source, with vox for ex I generally do the major compression before the EQ.....

I usually hear about people EQing AFTER compression.

 

[KeithRT99]

you can do it any way you want, but i've been under the impression that Filters should be before the comp, and eq after. unless you're trying to go for a certain sound with the eq pre comp.

also filters should go before gates.

 

[trym^^]

eq after compression, you don't want the compressor to react
on your boosts mostly.
joeymusicguy: thanks for reminding me of the importance of reverb,
i always seem to neglect this when mixing drums.

 

[scorpio01169]

i always eq before compresssion, however i would suggest that you try it both ways and see what works for you, i know i sound like a broken record when i say this but, i think its important to not rush through the recording process and try things out. i see alota guys on here talking about workflow and how can they get their recordings done faster, well for me i would rather have a good sounding product then one done in an hour.

 

[joeymusicguy]

lately i've been doing one cd per month

but thats about to speed up O_O, because the bigger releases need more time
but smaller ones can do it quick, usually

 

[broken81]

Hey Joey thanks for sharing this info in such depth... Much appreciated

 

[ghostofbridgeport]

after this, you're going to need a compression bus to send all of your drums too, kick, snare, and toms. you want to aux send out from your drum track channels to this bus, and do heavy compression on this bus. make it half volume, this will fill the void and make the drums huge.

then you're going to definately need reverb to make the snare and the toms larger than life. if you dont, they're just compressed hits. reverb adds the necessary body and tails to the hits that make the kit bigger than it is on tape. do the reverb individually for each drum track (dont send from the drum compression bus!)

Just a quick question? And by the way im using Nuendo 3
When joey talk's about setting up a Compression bus to send all the drums too(kick,snare,tom). how do i do that exactly?
Do I set a compressor up on a FX Channel Track
and then on the snare , kick, and tom individual tracks i go to the send tab and add it there ??? is this right just want to make sure...cause i think i might totally be wrong and I probaly am.......then i would also do the reverb like this too correct. I would really like to try this.
cheers