General Vocal EQ, Comp, etc. Tips
- Thread starter Sean in Silence
- Start date
So evening stuff out before the compressor is a pretty good idea? Is it just one of those things that some people do, some people use other methods?
greyskull
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- Mar 22, 2006
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Compress like that on the way in... ish,
Then maybe more later if i fancy it. Use it on the way in to get the levels right into the box then slam it later if it needs it
Normally spend a lot of time audtioning mics to suit the singers voice, so by the end barely eq at all. a little hi shelf on the UAD 1073 and maybe a cut boost at 2.5 k and a roll off at 50 or 80 hz and thats it.
but the third bit of gear in the rack is definately the most important with singers
serious mix engineers fix dynamics using automation, not limiting or compression. it has been stated a million times by a million people here that comp and limiting is used as a sound shaping tool, not to fix uneven dynamics. using comp. to even dynamics is going to sound inconsistent.
lets use a snare track as an example. If some hits are a lot harder than others, then they will get compressed or limited more than the other hits which sounds like ass. it also doesnt work very well!
but volume automation post fader can be advantageous too.
check out these threads bro... they will help you understand the concept better!
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/469985-what-do-you-use-automation.html
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/489760-automation-do-you-bother.html
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/489253-compression.html
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/480161-automate-how-much.html
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
CLA has stated that he commonly crushes vocals with compression and then automates to get the dynamics *back in*. There are no hard and fast rules here, and I would certainly consider him a 'serious mix engineer'.
It's all about hitting the vocal in multiple stages. You can knock off a few dB on the way down using an LA2A, Distressor or the like. Many love opto compression here, but you can feel free to even some more aggressive vocals out with something like an 1176.
In the mix you can hit it with two more stages, perhaps one with a fast to medium attack to let the pops through a bit, and another limiter-like compressor (or limiter) on the tail end to even out the spikes.
It will all depend on the vocalist and music, but those are some general guidelines that might get you in the ballpark for more aggressive music.
One thing I like to do on background vocals is to route them all into
a bus where I have a stereo compressor working.
Glues the whole thing nicely together.
Sometimes it works on stereo clean guitars too.
a bus where I have a stereo compressor working.
Glues the whole thing nicely together.
Sometimes it works on stereo clean guitars too.
greyskull
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sorry dude im gonna have to disagree with you on this one. - Far be it from me to teach you compression 101 but i think you've misunderstood it a bit
While yes i partially use compression for tone shaping; on vocals, especially dynamic singers; compression is used to even out the quiet and loud bits.
Whilst i would agree that automating in essence does the same thing tonally its not the same at all.
One of the reason compressors were invented was because no-one had figured out automation yet!That and singers couldnt sing consistently enough to keep them at the front of the mix. Despite the fact that yes you can sit there and ride the fader on every single fucking syllable to keep the vocal prominenet (if you're Bruce Swedien) I prefer the sound of a good mic into a good pre into a good compressor usually an 1176.
Besides thats what compression was invented for ... Dynamic control
I err more down the CLA route of slamming it and riding a little bit as opposed to spending years making tiny little changes. I think it sounds better too
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
There nothing really wrong with either approach, dude. I tend to mix the two up. Really it's about using all the tools in your arsenal to get what you want.
Having said that, some people are more pedantic than others. If you can stomach sitting there all day cutting up the vocal into syllables and manually adjusting gain, and pasting all the sibilant bits onto another track so you can 'manually de-ess' and shit like that, more power to you. Some have even cut up bass parts into singular notes, since bass guitars tend to resonate differently at different freqs and they will treat each note individually to get the most consistent and even bass. Personally, I would sooner fund a project to create a bass guitar with even resonance than do that in every project, but y'know, everyone is different.
Having said that, some people are more pedantic than others. If you can stomach sitting there all day cutting up the vocal into syllables and manually adjusting gain, and pasting all the sibilant bits onto another track so you can 'manually de-ess' and shit like that, more power to you. Some have even cut up bass parts into singular notes, since bass guitars tend to resonate differently at different freqs and they will treat each note individually to get the most consistent and even bass. Personally, I would sooner fund a project to create a bass guitar with even resonance than do that in every project, but y'know, everyone is different.
Realised recently that this is by far my biggest problem area- Alot of my busier mixes seem to have issues with vocals. either being too loud or just them not sounding great.
Anyone got any tips for comping while minimising "essing", I've found that if I hit the comps anyways hard it really brings out the sibilance a shit ton and that its taking alot of work to get rid of with with De-essers but doesn't even kill if totally.
I tend to automate them alot to even some dynamics but I'm feeling that without slamming them I'm putting them too loud so that they're not getting lost. Results in a less pro sounding mix and its really bugging me over the last few days
Anyone got any tips for comping while minimising "essing", I've found that if I hit the comps anyways hard it really brings out the sibilance a shit ton and that its taking alot of work to get rid of with with De-essers but doesn't even kill if totally.
I tend to automate them alot to even some dynamics but I'm feeling that without slamming them I'm putting them too loud so that they're not getting lost. Results in a less pro sounding mix and its really bugging me over the last few days
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
greyskull
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i go through and chop out the silence like you would with toms, and sometimes trim the breaths, and add fades so when it hits the compressor you dont get UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH - sing sing sing
i sometimes cut them out; it really depends whats right for the song
16S
all gods fail...
16S
all gods fail...
Seizure.
Member
What works best for me live is rolling off lowend to about 200/250 hz, then compressing with an as fast as possible attack and release around 50/100, at 2:1, 4:1, whatever sounds best.. also catching peaks, shouts/short loud screams whatever with the peak limiter that some analog comps have is also an awesome trick Nico/Punkrockacademyfightsong learned me!
Then when the whole band plays, i mostly dip it abit around 250/350 and sometimes do small hishelf from around 1/5 khz for clarity.
And obviously add a bit delay..
Next to that i do alot of faderrides..
Studio work totally depends!
Then when the whole band plays, i mostly dip it abit around 250/350 and sometimes do small hishelf from around 1/5 khz for clarity.
And obviously add a bit delay..
Next to that i do alot of faderrides..
Studio work totally depends!
crillemannen
Member
If the vocals are recorder properly, with good mic, preamp etc. You shouldnt have any problems mixing the vocals.
Put a LA-2, or the bombfactory 1176 comp on the vox. Use heavy compression -30db no problems, if you want a little bit more dynamics perhaps -15-20db.
For example the LA-2a wich is perhaps the most famous (and best??) comp for vocals are famous for how it can compress the signal withouth having it sound overcompressed, not unusual that you compress -30db or so.
After that put a De-esser on the vocals, and then some EQ.
Highpass att 200-250hz noway!!. Dont you want some bottom
end for the vocals?? Atleast for the lead vox. (choirs is a different matter)
Highpass at 100-120hz add some at 3khz and some at 6-10khz, and you will be fine.
Add reverb and delay, if you like. You can also use a fxsend of Waves Doubbler to widden the vocals. IF the band think its cool to have breath in the mix then keep it, if they dont (or you dont want it) then cut it out.
I dont think any PRO's sits and automate the gain controll of the compression. How much
dynamic is it in a modern metal mix
Just read the posts of Ermz and Greyskull they are right on.
Cheers
Put a LA-2, or the bombfactory 1176 comp on the vox. Use heavy compression -30db no problems, if you want a little bit more dynamics perhaps -15-20db.
For example the LA-2a wich is perhaps the most famous (and best??) comp for vocals are famous for how it can compress the signal withouth having it sound overcompressed, not unusual that you compress -30db or so.
After that put a De-esser on the vocals, and then some EQ.
Highpass att 200-250hz noway!!. Dont you want some bottom
end for the vocals?? Atleast for the lead vox. (choirs is a different matter)
Highpass at 100-120hz add some at 3khz and some at 6-10khz, and you will be fine.
Add reverb and delay, if you like. You can also use a fxsend of Waves Doubbler to widden the vocals. IF the band think its cool to have breath in the mix then keep it, if they dont (or you dont want it) then cut it out.
I dont think any PRO's sits and automate the gain controll of the compression. How much
dynamic is it in a modern metal mix
Just read the posts of Ermz and Greyskull they are right on.
Cheers
Seizure.
Member
I hipass most metalstuff at 200/250 hz because it'll sound like the vocals is on top and sticking out of the mix more if i don't..
Here's one of my live mixes.. also hipass at 250 or even higher on vox.. www.myspace.com/brutushakken
Thats a tape out to mini disk, so it not sonicly perfect obviously haha (btw.. just heard the myspace link is put through a frikkin' l1 and smashed to death... i'll post un " mastered" one straight from the minidisk..
Here's one of my live mixes.. also hipass at 250 or even higher on vox.. www.myspace.com/brutushakken
Thats a tape out to mini disk, so it not sonicly perfect obviously haha (btw.. just heard the myspace link is put through a frikkin' l1 and smashed to death... i'll post un " mastered" one straight from the minidisk..
Seizure.
Member
Its Oldschool, but it works i only use it for that actually.. its cool to hear back your gig sometimes..
Nothing serious.
i only use it for that actually.. its cool to hear back your gig sometimes..Nothing serious.
Fox Mulder
The Truth Is Out There
When working with clean metal vocals I always tend to automate syllable by syllable. Major pain in the ass, but I apparently like what I get out of it. I obviously use a compressor after that, with no more than 4db of gain reduction. Afterwards, I automate the compressed signal depending on what the song demands.
greyskull
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