GMD SONG SURVIVOR: VIO-LENCE - ETERNAL NIGHTMARE, ROUND 2

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I didn't say those bands were from the Bay Area.

I did give Oppressing a recent relisten and it's still a lame mid-tempo chugfest, the same kind of stuff bands like Testament, Overkill, and Heathen were doing around roughly the same time, only without those band's technical/melodic skills. Borderline Anthrax-tier.

this just proves what i said in my previous post. now im not sure if youve ever actually listened to it. At least come back and admit how retarded this sounded when you actually give that album a chance. "mid-tempo chugfest" bahahahhaha

 

[Allfader]

I didn't say those bands were from the Bay Area.

I did give Oppressing a recent relisten and it's still a lame mid-tempo chugfest.

The album has like, 2 mid tempo/slower tracks (and one of them picks up in the second half). It might not be as fast as Darkness Descends, but it thrashes in plenty.

Also, I've never heard a criticism like that about MoP, for example. An album with 3/8 fast songs, 2/8 mid tempo tracks and literally half of the album's length on the slow, not even thrash side of things.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The album has like, 2 mid tempo/slower tracks (and one of them picks up in the second half). It might not be as fast as Darkness Descends, but it thrashes in plenty.

Also, I've never heard a criticism like that about MoP, for example. An album with 3/8 fast songs, 2/8 mid tempo tracks and literally half of the album's length on the slow, not even thrash side of things.

That's because MoP is an excellent album with lots of ideas, and doesn't need to be limited to thrash.

Anyways, quick rundown listening to the album again, and blind to my autism list

Liquid Courage - first song that feels properly fast and aggressive, it's actually good too, 3.5/5
Engulfed By Flames - upper-mid-tempo, by working overtime they were able to pay off their mortgage to Metallica and splurged on a couple fast riffs in between the deliberate average ones, 2/5
Subterfuge - mid-tempo with some fast triplet riffing to create an illusion of energy, sounds like PWYP/Souls-era Testament, 2/5
Oppressing The Masses - faster drumming, relatively mid-tempo riffing, 2/5
Officer Nice - see I Profit, 1.5/5
World In A World - mid-tempo and chuggy until it reaches the bootleg Over the Wall bit, 1.5/5
I Profit - I guess technically up-tempo but the riffs themselves are slow, just with moderately brisk drumming, also that main riff repeats itself way too fucking much for such a boring riff, 1.5/5
Mentally Afflicted - see above except replace Over the Wall with something worse, 1/5

Previous autism list:

Subterfuge - 3/5
Liquid Courage - 2.5/5
Engulfed By Flames - 2.5/5
Officer Nice - 2.5/5
World in a World - 2/5
Oppressing the Masses - 1.5/5
Mentally Affected - 1.5/5
I Profit - 1/5 (really boring)

So aside from being able to appreciate Liquid Courage this time around, perhaps as a result of listening to the album for the conscious objective of finding up-tempo/energetic music, I stand by my original assessment more or less.

Also, nearly every drum fill sounds like it was stolen from Tom Hunting.

 

[Allfader]

I'm not talking about the quality of the music, which is totally subjective. Tempo in metal jargon/practice is set by the drumming and given the album is mostly on the fast side of things, you're objectively wrong.

I mean, many Euro power metal song choruses have this ringing riff where each chord is 1 bar long over fast double bass drumming. Those choruses are slow too, even if the drumming keep the same tempo as the verse? Many brutal death metal bands play half quarter note riffs where the kick and snare are doing the same thing, yet no one says it's slow.

Lastly, my comment on MoP is not about the quality, is about the objective lack of thrashing for an album hailed by many as one of the greatest thrash masterpieces. KEA and RTL are far more cohesive works.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

the album is mostly on the fast side of things, you're objectively wrong.

the fact that he compared an album that's on the faster side of things like Oppressing the Masses to stuff like Souls of Black and Victims of Deception was the first indicator that he had no clue what he was talking about(something he tends to do all the time here). If he wants garbage mid paced thrash from 1990 then he should look no further than his beloved exodus. The kings of mid-paced generic thrash.

 

[Allfader]

If he wants garbage mid paced thrash from 1990 then he should look no further than his beloved exodus. The kings of mid-paced generic thrash.

No joke. One of the most mediocre discographies ever released by a "major" band. Worse than Anthrax.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

No joke. One of the most mediocre discographies ever released by a "major" band. Worse than Anthrax.

agreed, even the Anthrax part. Their first two albums are okay but the rest of their discog is pure shit.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm not talking about the quality of the music, which is totally subjective. Tempo in metal jargon/practice is set by the drumming and given the album is mostly on the fast side of things, you're objectively wrong.

I mean, many Euro power metal song choruses have this ringing riff where each chord is 1 bar long over fast double bass drumming. Those choruses are slow too, even if the drumming keep the same tempo as the verse? Many brutal death metal bands play half quarter note riffs where the kick and snare are doing the same thing, yet no one says it's slow.

Lastly, my comment on MoP is not about the quality, is about the objective lack of thrashing for an album hailed by many as one of the greatest thrash masterpieces. KEA and RTL are far more cohesive works.

I used a technical musical term, tempo, incorrectly, my bad. Oppressing the Masses is a mid-paced album, even if it's not a mid-tempo album.

I would probably call those Euro power metal choruses mid-paced if only the double bass is fast. Same goes for your death metal example. Were you the one that argued Blessed Are the Sick's musical innovation in that it featured fast double bass under doom metal riffing? I would point to that as a perfect example where fast drumming does not result in a fast pace. There are some fast double bass sections on the first couple Candlemass albums as well, but again, they're not fast-paced songs nor even fast-paced sections usually.

MOP probably has more thrash than RTL. The two are so similar in their track-listing and overall styles that it's hard to imagine one being felt as cohesive and not the other.

the fact that he compared an album that's on the faster side of things like Oppressing the Masses to stuff like Souls of Black and Victims of Deception was the first indicator that he had no clue what he was talking about(something he tends to do all the time here). If he wants garbage mid paced thrash from 1990 then he should look no further than his beloved exodus. The kings of mid-paced generic thrash.

Exodus is mid-paced for thrash overall, but unlike Vio-lence past one album, they wrote great songs and riffs as well.

 

[Allfader]

I used a technical musical term, tempo, incorrectly, my bad. Oppressing the Masses is a mid-paced album, even if it's not a mid-tempo album.

I would probably call those Euro power metal choruses mid-paced if only the double bass is fast. Same goes for your death metal example. Were you the one that argued Blessed Are the Sick's musical innovation in that it featured fast double bass under doom metal riffing? I would point to that as a perfect example where fast drumming does not result in a fast pace. There are some fast double bass sections on the first couple Candlemass albums as well, but again, they're not fast-paced songs nor even fast-paced sections usually.

MOP probably has more thrash than RTL. The two are so similar in their track-listing and overall styles that it's hard to imagine one being felt as cohesive and not the other.

Again, you're confusing terms and functions. Riffs carry Melody and harmony, whereas drums do the tempo. In both cases you're wrong for the same reason: the snare is the one carrying tempo in metal, that's why the Euro power metal choruses are still fast paced and Blessed Are the Sick is slow (and quite the innovation, IMO, vastly replicated afterwards).

The Violence album is mostly fast paced because of the drums, the riffs are secondary in such terms.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Again, you're confusing terms and functions. Riffs carry Melody and harmony, whereas drums do the tempo. In both cases you're wrong for the same reason: the snare is the one carrying tempo in metal, that's why the Euro power metal choruses are still fast paced and Blessed Are the Sick is slow (and quite the innovation, IMO, vastly replicated afterwards).

The Violence album is mostly fast paced because of the drums, the riffs are secondary in such terms.

lol wat? That's simply objectively wrong. Anything that can be expressed as a function of time, which all music can be, is subject to the consideration of tempo. In the context of regular non-experimental rock/metal music, music generally is performed at a single tempo, which all instruments maintain. I get what you're saying colloquially regarding "the snare is the one carrying tempo in metal", and can agree in many cases, but that's more a matter of danceability and genre. A person listening to thrash and other more intense metal genres probably nods/bangs their head to the tempo being that the snare often falls on every beat, sure, but that doesn't mean that the other instrumentation plays no role in terms of the overall feel and pace of the song.

You seem to be contradicting yourself in that you previously brought up the fast double bass in power metal, not fast snare, as an example of fast pace. Maybe I need an example because when you said that I imagined a song like, say, Europe's Memories with faster rolling double-bass but a kick kick-kick-snare pattern rather that a snare-every-fourth pattern. I would call that a mid-paced song, for example.

 

[Allfader]

lol wat? That's simply objectively wrong. Anything that can be expressed as a function of time, which all music can be, is subject to the consideration of tempo. In the context of regular non-experimental rock/metal music, music generally is performed at a single tempo, which all instruments maintain. I get what you're saying colloquially regarding "the snare is the one carrying tempo in metal", and can agree in many cases, but that's more a matter of danceability and genre. A person listening to thrash and other more intense metal genres probably nods/bangs their head to the tempo being that the snare often falls on every beat, sure, but that doesn't mean that the other instrumentation plays no role in terms of the overall feel and pace of the song.

So, you understand. If you do, then you reslize that the Violence album IS mostly fast paced.

You seem to be contradicting yourself in that you previously brought up the fast double bass in power metal, not fast snare, as an example of fast pace. Maybe I need an example because when you said that I imagined a song like, say, Europe's Memories with faster rolling double-bass but a kick kick-kick-snare pattern rather that a snare-every-fourth pattern. I would call that a mid-paced song, for example.

See Sonata Arctica's Destruction Preventer chorus: whole note guitar chords, double bass + fast snare (hits 4 times in a 4/4 song). Emperor do it all the time: I Am the Black Wizards, With Strength I Burn, all those songs start with the same

In Classic notation, the bpm's are written just under the songs name and that's the tempo of that given song. The common notion ("feel") in metal is that slow, mid and fast pace IS provided by snare. Look at this:

In 4/4 songs:

Slow paced: Morbid Angel's Blessed Are the Sick. Snare hits only on 3 of 4/4, The double bass is fast but the drive of the groove is given by the snare, which makes the song slow. Even if the riffs were faster, the song would remain slow.

1-2-Snare-4| 1-2-Snare-4

Another examples in different bpm's: Arcturus - Painting My Horror first sections, Fade to Black's intro/verses,

Mid paced: Ulver's I Troldskog Faren Vild. Snare hits in 2 and 4. Snare hits twice per bar, again, under double bass.

1-Snare-3-Snare| 1-Snare-3-Snare

Emperor's Beyond the Great Vast Forest follows the same rule and is a well known mid paced song. Metallica's Orion (sans the slow interlude), Master of Puppets, Testament's Trial by Fire, BS' Paranoid, etc.

Fast paced: Violence's Engulfed by Flames. Snare hits 4 times in 4/4. See most of thrash played with the "skank" beat, most of fast Euro power metal, A lot of death and black metal do the same thing.

Blastbeats go beyond the common sense of fast faced btw and of course there are other special patterns where the times are kept by bass drum or cymbals but as a general rule, this works quite well IMO.

You are confused and/or trolling. It doesn't matter.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

You are confused and/or trolling.

I'm shocked.

 

[RadicalThrasher]

T.D.S. and Bodies on Bodies are chopped