Originally Posted by Frank Harthoorn:
I kind of see where you're coming from, but there's really no sinister motives here. The Freedom video was shot in a day, without any sort of script, but for the location and some close-up shots.
Jim LotFP said:
No argument then that it wasn't intentional.
Not intended as argument, either. I know what our intentions, or indeed lack thereof, were. If you don't believe me and maintain we had a different agenda, then there's not much left for me to say that would change your mind, is there?
Originally Posted by Frank Harthoorn:
The guy who 'directed' it more or less made the whole thing up as he went along, which was fine with us, we just wanted to shoot the song and leave.
Jim LotFP said:
Just curious what the purpose of the whole thing was then if (as you imply) there was no preparation on the band's part, and no real enthusiasm to do it at all?
Videos seem to be a necessary evil if you want your label to take care of business. Videoshoots are long, boring, tiresome days, which nobody looks forward too. You understand why a label wants them, and it comes with the territory, but there's really no fun in doing them. We once did a video for a song called Erase which in some respects turned out even sillier then the Freedom one, and since then we've always had a kind of no nonsense approach to these things. 'Just shoot us doing the damn song, no frills please'. Little did we know that over the years, even inviting a couple of people to come over and see a Metal band would be construed as 'blatant begging'.
Originally Posted by Frank Harthoorn:
I'm afraid that whole storyline you speak of is just not there. I just watched the whole sorry affair in case I might have missed something, and I really think you're reading a bit too much into these kind of things.
Jim LotFP said:
That's always a distinct possibility. But it certainly looks like people are bored to begin with. It's not a video-long storyline or anything (and I never thought it was), but that's what I see that opening bit, people being led to accept that this band is the real deal.
Like I said, I kind of see where you're coming from here, but as it was never our intention to give any meaning to this, I really can't read anything more into it other than some kids hanging around, band sets up, plugs in, hey presto: Metal!
Jim LotFP said:
The point of having that question in the interview wasn't to damn the band.
No, it also looked more like ridicule to me. Which would be fine, by the way, as we do that ourselves all the time.
Jim LotFP said:
It was to present a situation from life (and naming names just because I dislike when people hedge their bets while trying to say something) and provoke a response from people and get them to say something that could be examined and discussed.
I understand that, but what you're in fact doing, is presenting my band to other people who, like yourself, aren't that familiar with us, as some kind of dim-witted, confused collective of idiots who hate Metal and have no idea what they're doing. I resent that, as nothing could be further from the truth.
Still, it got King Fowley all hot 'n bothered, that must count for something I guess.
Originally Posted by Frank Harthoorn:
The lack of confidence you mention, to me, mainly shows in JC's vocals. He just had no idea how to approach these songs, as he's obviously not a 'rock'singer.
Jim LotFP said:
You're putting me into "interviewer" mode now. Did you realize this at the time?
Yes, we did.
Jim LotFP said:
If you did realize this, why go ahead with the album without further refinement?
There wasn't much more 'refining' left to do, at least not within the time restraints we had. You work with the things you have, and at the end of the day, an album shows exactly where you're at, at a certain point in time. JC's vocals, as 'love them or hate them' as they are, are still an integral part of this band, and any further refining would probably have meant getting a different singer in. Which was not an option for us.
Originally Posted by Frank Harthoorn:
The 'blatant begging' you mention I find slightly insulting; we've never concerned ourselves much with pleasing, or indeed having, a fanbase, and I don't think we've ever gone out of our way to state the opposite.
Jim LotFP said:
While I accept that this wasn't "blatant begging" I don't think I can quite accept that a band making albums, shooting videos, and touring is not at all concerned with having a fanbase.
As a musician, one of the things you aspire to is to be able to work fulltime on your music, not being bothered by anything else. This means, of course, you need some sort of financial backup, which is where recordlabels step in. They are there to find some people that might like your music good enough to actually buy recordings of it, or attend public performances of your band. This in turn generates the money for you to keep on doing what you love most. If there's enough revenue, you may continue. If not, it can all be over very quickly. We've always accepted that risk as part of the deal, so we'd never have to compromise our vision of the music we enjoy writing and playing between the four of us. That's what I mean by not concerning ourselves with having a fanbase; we've never written anything to please people, or done what's expected of us, and be certain of decent sales figures. In fact I think we've done quite the opposite on numerous occasions.
Originally Posted by Frank Harthoorn:
You'd be surprised how little input bands often have in these kind of videos. Usually they're just glad someone with a camera actually shows up.
Jim LotFP said:
No, I wouldn't be surprised that the process was like this. I am surprised that bands continuously allow these situations.
More often than not it's complete cluelessness. 'Oh, you think this looks good? Well, let's do that than'. Or the oft-heard 'Well, let's shoot it anyway, we can always leave it out'. Which of course never happens.
Originally Posted by Frank Harthoorn:
What amuses me the most when discussing Soul Survivor these days, is that people (not meaning O.R. here) who, upon it's release, were very vocal in stating their intense dislike for it, these days have done a 180 and regard SS as our finest moment. They can still suck my cock though.
Jim LotFP said:
I find this curious. I understand that a negative reaction upon release had immediate ramifications for you, but I would think that someone's long-term opinion would matter more than their immediate gut reaction. I know that I really hated things like Amorphis' Elegy, Arcturus La Masquerade Infernale, and Gorguts' Obscura when I first heard them, but have since "done a 180" and consider those among the finest albums I own. Surely you wouldn't think better of someone that loved the album upon release but now hates it?
No, I wouldn't. The amount of flak we received over Soul Survivor, however, was really quite disproportionate to what was actually on offer. If this had been a badly written, or sloppily played record, I would have been the first to join in the fun. But it wasn't. Reactions were downright vitriolic, as if we had personally offended some of these people. Now I really don't mind anyone not liking our stuff, but if you don't trust us to handle our music with the utmost care and precision, and if you can't at least
hear that, then you really have no idea what you're talking about to begin with. I can't bear critics who have no idea what's actually going on, especially since most of them haven't learned anything in the past ten years. And that's why these people can still suck my cock, even if they DO hear things differently now.
) Does anyone know the title of the Gorefest-song that's being referred to here?
