Gothic metal

[Reykjaviking]

I´m totally into gothmetal as it´s the only kind of music, authentically representing my inner landscapes and abysses, coming from my very soul so to speak whereas genres such as death, trash, black- (with a few exceptions) and powermetal and many more are nowhere near to being capable of accomplishing that.

Now i wonder if it´s those genres, lacking the complexity-

or if it´s my inner self being too complicated to put into sound-

or if it´s my expecations regarding music- especially metal..

however -gothmetal - in my opinion is too underestimated as well as too little acknowledged due to whatever reason even though there is some "good" (as in original) bands out there such as:

Tristania
Trail of tears
The sins of thy beloved
Theatre of tragedy (early)
Sirenia
Penumbra
Artrosis

you´re welcome to add a few more and you´re even more welcome to prove me wrong as far as my concerns about this unique genre go.

I haven´t been here for long but i already like this site -Mart..

 

[The Wanderer]

I'd be willing to bet that its your expectations. and original? hehe. ok.

 

[Vim Fuego]

You forgot Zodiac Mindwarp and the Love Reaction.

 

[Lordenlil]

This band has changed a lot, but still kick ass

The 3rd And The Mortal

 

[Warmaster]

By Odin, what's going on with you?
Do you cry the whole day?

Because i think Gothmetal isn't underestimated, it's the opposite of that.

Maybe you should go for a walk to see the sun with a walkmen which plays Deathmetal!!!

But i'm sure you forgot to mention:

The 3rd and the mortal
The Gathering
Lake of tears

 

[J.]

What about My Dying Bride?

 

[Vim Fuego]

What about Marilyn Manson? He's the king of the Goffs isn't he?

 

[jimbobhickville]

Manson plays industrial. Anyway, my favorite goth band is Rain Fell Within. Lacuna Coil hasn't been mentioned; they are also great. After Forever is sort-of goth, but mostly just operatic. Great stuff, though.

 

[Vim Fuego]

Originally posted by jimbobhickville
Manson plays industrial. Anyway, my favorite goth band is Rain Fell Within. Lacuna Coil hasn't been mentioned; they are also great. After Forever is sort-of goth, but mostly just operatic. Great stuff, though.

No no! He wear black so he's a Goff! Just like Johnny Cash and Roy Orbison!

 

[Reykjaviking]

first off: thanks for replying guys..

Now it occurs to me, that there´s quite a few differences between people´s perceptions regarding gothmetal which i suppose stem from the fact, that we´re all from different parts of the world.

I for one am a (proud) citizen of the homecountry of "Napalm Records" the #1 specialists in gothic, death and blackmetal- located in Burgenland, Austria which is in the middle of europe.
They also have a branch somewhere in Chicago in order to supply the world outside of europe with their specialties too.
They do nothing but goth/death/black metal unlike other- multi genre-labels such as Century Media, Nuclear Blast or Roadrunner Records which is why they´re known as the specialists.

however-

What i and most of the people i know refer to as gothmetal is:

grunting male vocals interacting with angelic female vocals- preferably soprano, accompanied by a heavy, stompin´ and most of all SLOW! metal sound. (if it would was played the fast way- it´d be called Blackmetal - only with additional female vocals)

I don´t know for sure so correct me if i´m wrong- but i think it was Norway´s (most of the "good" gothmetalbands are from Norway) "Theatre of tragedy", who back in 95´were the first, totally dedicating themselves to- thus establishing this unique, enrapturing, style of metal (Liv Kristine doesn´t do soprano tho) as opposed to other bands (long) before them who were merely experimenting with it on one or the other occasion like "Celtic Frost" back in 86´ ("Necromantical screams") or "Paradiselost" (one of my alltime favorite bands btw.) back in 92´ ("Gothic").

I would very much appreciate more info on that and as far as the band- suggestions are concerned- i´d prefer the ones, fitting the criteria mentioned above- however- to me there´s one single exception to the "rule"- which is "Type 0 negative". Even though they don´t have any female singers (except for the choirs) they always manage (thanks to Petie Steele´s remarkable voice) to create a gothic- atmosphere like only very few other bands are able to create. -Mart..

 

[Kveldssanger]

Originally posted by Warmaster
The 3rd and the mortal
The Gathering
Lake of tears

Excuse me but what have these bands to do with "gothic" metal? There aren't any gothic influences in their music? They all started as doom/death bands (except The Third and The Mortal who were just doomy) and nowadays they have all little to do with metal and nothing to do with gothic. I know that different people have diiferent ideas about the genre but for a band to be characterized as "gothic" metal should have "gothic" elements in their music, these were great atmospheric metal(not exactly metal but what the hell) bands.

Anyway, as for the "gothic" metal genre i think it became really popular a couple of years ago when almost every new band hired a "soprano" (some of which couldn't really sing normally much less soprano) and that in my opinion drove the genre into decline. There are good bands but right now you have to search really hard to find them among the rubbish.

 

[Kveldssanger]

oh and a few suggestions... you may want to try

Dreams Of Sanity
Lacrimosa
Saturnus

 

[Reykjaviking]

Originally posted by Kveldssanger

Anyway, as for the "gothic" metal genre i think it became really popular a couple of years ago when almost every new band hired a "soprano" (some of which couldn't really sing normally much less soprano) and that in my opinion drove the genre into decline. There are good bands but right now you have to search really hard to find them among the rubbish.

..you speak from my heart man (no offense to Warmaster of course- it´s just a matter of perception)

There are indeed very few gothmetal bands who are more or less original and demanding in their ideas- which is why i could hardly think of any further bands to mention, fitting that criterion.

as far as your suggestions go- i´ve tried "Dreams of sanity" a while ago ("Komödia")- after all it´s an Austrian band- but they didn´t really kick in so to speak- as i consider them way to smoothe for my taste as well as i don´t associate them with gothmetal at all.

The same goes for Lacrimosa, the goth- band from "my" german neighbors- even though they´ve been the ones who got me back into the metal scene after a little break of a few months last year.

as for lake of tears- i tried them after an interesting article in the german mag "Metalhammer" where they got pretty good critics- (i was working at a huge CD- store back then) but they too didn´t really kick in- i even wound up being bored to be perfectly frank as i couldn´t find any exiting tracks on whatever album it was.

Don´t take it personal tho- ´coz i´ve been told for about a million times by an equal number of people, that i´am hypercritically (to a fault) as well as narrowminded and demanding as holy hell and i think they´re right.. -Mart..

 

[jimbobhickville]

Gothic metal doesn't have to have death growls. Listen to Rain Fell Within.

 

[Lordenlil]

Originally posted by Kveldssanger


Excuse me but what have these bands to do with "gothic" metal? There aren't any gothic influences in their music? They all started
as doom/death bands (except The Third and The Mortal who were just doomy) and nowadays they have all little to do with metal and nothing to do with gothic. I know that different people have diiferent ideas about the genre but for a band to be characterized as "gothic" metal should have "gothic" elements in their music, these were great atmospheric metal(not exactly metal but what the hell) bands.

I cannot really understand why you can't see the goth parts of
The 3rd.... What have you heard, really? There is CLEARLY a lot
of goth in their music, most of their music is just far more complex
than the usual stuff. It's a band that cannot be put in a genre,
but the goth stuff is there. More or less, depends on which record.

Well, I just had to comment on that one

:Smokedev:

 

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Reykjaviking
however-

What i and most of the people i know refer to as gothmetal is:

grunting male vocals interacting with angelic female vocals- preferably soprano, accompanied by a heavy, stompin´ and most of all SLOW! metal sound. (if it would was played the fast way- it´d be called Blackmetal - only with additional female vocals)

what you describe is beauty and the beast 'metal'. stuff that to me seems to want to be doom but can't capture the feeling. i dont think that is what most people think of when they think goth metal. lacrimosa to me is way more goth (and still bad, sorry i dont like the genre much). and i hope you aren'te insinuating that paradise lost was in any way goth metal. just cuz the album was called gothic and had some female vox.

if you want to listen to real depressing music that is played from the fucking heart (i'm sorry, tristania and crew sounds so contrived to me, the sins of thy beloved are the most guilty of this) then try some good doom bands. My dying bride, you already got paradise lost. try thergothon, streams from teh heavens is awesome. super sick and slow. shape of despair, unholy (female vocals mixed with male, but in a way that sounds good and dreamy, and very fuckin doomy). Also try funeral. the album is called tragedies.

 

[Kveldssanger]

Originally posted by Lordenlil


I cannot really understand why you can't see the goth parts of
The 3rd.... What have you heard, really? There is CLEARLY a lot
of goth in their music, most of their music is just far more complex
than the usual stuff. It's a band that cannot be put in a genre,
but the goth stuff is there. More or less, depends on which record.

Well, I just had to comment on that one

:Smokedev:

Now, lets see. I own three of the albums of the band (Tears..., In This Room and Memoirs). I 'll leave the last two aside since they clearly have nothing to do with gothic or metal. I suppose you're talking about their first album Tears Laid in Earth. I see some similatities with the "gothic" metal genre, but I can't say I see many gothic elements in there. I may be wrong but they don't seem influenced by bands like Sisters of Mercy or Mission for example. Their sound feels more doomy to me with a few folk elements (coming mostly from the singer of the band Kari). Anyway, it doesn't really matter they're still a great band and labels are useless to great bands. And their last album (Memoirs) is very good trip-hop album.

 

[Kveldssanger]

oh, and one other thing when I hear the term gothic metal (apart from the stereotypes of the male/female vocals), I have in mind mostly the musical backgrounds and tastes of the band. That is mostly apparent in the evolution of the band (like Theatre Of Tragedy that evolved in an electro/goth band). And Paradise Lost are surely not another gothic metal band, but they surely have a lot of gothic influences in their album which are more apparent in the last albums of the band and their musical preferences (especially Greg I believe is a very big gothic fan). The problem with the genre, in my opinion, is that it has become to stereotyped and the fact that most of the bands never have listened to any actual gothic bands, so their "experimentation" is most of the times laughable.

 

[Lordenlil]

Originally posted by Kveldssanger

Now, lets see. I own three of the albums of the band (Tears..., In This Room and Memoirs). I 'll leave the last two aside since they clearly have nothing to do with gothic or metal. I suppose you're talking about their first album Tears Laid in Earth. I see some similatities with the "gothic" metal genre, but I can't say I see many gothic elements in there. I may be wrong but they don't seem influenced by bands like Sisters of Mercy or Mission for example. Their sound feels more doomy to me with a few folk elements (coming mostly from the singer of the band Kari). Anyway, it doesn't really matter they're still a great band and labels are useless to great bands. And their last album (Memoirs) is very good trip-hop album.

It is doomy as well, but the atmosphere etc of goth is still there.
I got all their stuff (oooh), but the material with the most goth in
it is actually on recordings that you don't have
Well, it's not that big a deal, really. I guess we all have our own
views on these things
Try a song called "From The Depth Of Memories". It's from the Mini
"Nightswan".

Rock on :Smokedev:

 

[Reykjaviking]

Originally posted by The Wanderer


what you describe is beauty and the beast 'metal'. stuff that to me seems to want to be doom but can't capture the feeling. i dont think that is what most people think of when they think goth metal. lacrimosa to me is way more goth (and still bad, sorry i dont like the genre much). and i hope you aren'te insinuating that paradise lost was in any way goth metal. just cuz the album was called gothic and had some female vox.

Well- as far as the "Beauty and the beast metal" goes (i don´t like to call it that though- as it unjustifiedly reduces the whole style to merely the way it´s being sung -despite of the complex and often breathtaking compositions- created by the some of the most impressive and creative characters metal in general has to offer)
i for one do think, that they just wanna achieve to touch people deep inside, respectively enable them to mourn through their music -like the way death, trash or black metal enables people
to work off their anger and aggressions (to whatever extent)
which (in my humble opinion) they do an awesome job at.

As for Paradiselost:
I was merely insinuating, that Paradiselost happened to be one of the bands, who used to experiment with the style i call gothicmetal which to me is more than obvious if you listen to the single ("Gothic") that i was referring to (not the whole album)

here´s a fraction of a Paradiselost- interview that i´ve happened to "stumble" across- however it does not represent my point of view- (at least not beyond a certain extent)

LP: Paradise Lost are often credited as one of the founders of the Death Metal scene, how do you feel about that?

NH: "we were certainly amongst the first bands. There were the original old-school death metal bands, and then there were ones that shot off in directions with certain styles. I think gothic-metal, we definitely started that, I didn't know of anyone there doing it before us. We're really old school when it comes to the original kind of noise-bands and hardcore stuff. So, yeah, I certainly wouldn't disagree, I don't know about death-metal, but the gothic thing definitely."

Thanx for the suggestions btw. i´m gonna try to get a hold of
some tunes of the mentioned bands until tomorrow.. -Mart..