Gotta say ... little disappointed with Trigger

[Skinny Viking]

Was using it last night to replace some kicks for a slow tempo tune with no real double bass work or crazy kick drum parts. Mostly just a very straight, rock type feel with plenty of space between hits. When I was done I went back in to check the printed track vs. the original which I got into the habit of doing after using Drumagog for a while. Its just so weird but for some reason there had to be something like 20 different hits that were randomly misplaced in time to the original ... anywhere from 5 ms to 25 ms ... sometimes before or sometimes after the original hit. This can't have anything to do with being "phase accurate" as all the other hits were dead on to where they needed to be and in fact when I played both tracks together, the kicks sounded huge and punchy EXCEPT for those 20 or so random hits. Easy enough to snip and nudge but I guess I had just wanted to think that I wouldn't have this problem anymore after switching to Trigger. Drumagog use to do this to me often enough, but at least it would only seem to do it in the more double-bass intensive sections.

That's it ... more of a gripe than anything else. I'll keep messing with it. Didn't seem to be due to my settings ... as I mentioned, all the other hits were fine and there was nothing in the original track at the "mistriggered" hits that sounded any different to maybe cause it to place the new hit off

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

That sucks, and honestly all the negative is the reason why I didn't jump on this product.

 

[Ermz]

I had some offset issues with the first session I converted to MIDI with Trigger. I realized that it was due to the drummer playing two drums at the same time, having the transients combine, and having Trigger behave in a way where it triggered off the wrong drum transient. Everything got sorted out the moment I set up my elaborate leakage suppression scheme. Honestly, after I spent about an hour setting it up, it's almost foolproof. Everything rejects everything else, so all I need to do is set the sensitivity real low and roll. Haven't had any issues since, apart from some weird flamming here and there, which was fixed easily enough.

My #1 biggest problem with Trigger is the offset of its MIDI output. It's really really annoying and inconvenient. I can't fault the Triggering engine though - it's by far the best out there.

 

[MetalSound]

oh no please don´t tell me that. i just bought it yesterday. still waiting for this damn ilok thing.
i will let you know then.

btw, isn´t it strange that the company first offered trigger platinum for ssd guys for 150$ and now there is trigger ex for 129$?!

 

[Skinny Viking]

see, I don't use it with midi in any way so I can't really speak for that aspect of it ... although it is good to know just for future reference

the original kick track I was replacing was pretty damn clean as far as additional bleed from the kit ... and actually I'm pretty sure most of the offset hits were at points in the song where the kick was the only drum hitting at that moment (aside from some hats) so I just can't figure out why it would randomly offset hits by like 20 ms with no pattern to it

not really worth writing CS about it but would be cool if Steven or Alex could weigh in on this and maybe point out something I'm doing wrong ... or then again, maybe its just the nature of the beast?

 

[Skinny Viking]

oh no please don´t tell me that. i just bought it yesterday. still waiting for this damn ilok thing.
i will let you know then.

btw, isn´t it strange that the company first offered trigger platinum for ssd guys for 150$ and now there is trigger ex for 129$?!

Don't get me wrong .. its a great plugin, it really is ... much cleaner to work in than Drumagog, doesn't feel as "cheap", even though there was nothing cheap about dgog

I was just hoping that after all the hype it wouldn't do the one thing that annoyed me more than anything else about dgog. I'm like 99% certain it has nothing to do with my settings cause if it did, it would have been offsetting hits all over the place because the original kick track was VERY consistent

 

[guitarguru777]

Dude I have never had that issue, its probably just picking up a 2nd transient somewhere. I gate all my drums before putting them through Trigger, and if I have a problem part I just replace that one hit if need be.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Dude I have never had that issue, its probably just picking up a 2nd transient somewhere. I gate all my drums before putting them through Trigger, and if I have a problem part I just replace that one hit if need be.

I can assure you, there was no 2nd transient in any of the spots it did it in. As a matter of fact, it did it to me when doing my 3nd snare track, which was triggered off of a completely clean 2nd snare track that had already been replaced so the only hits in there were clean hits

its easy enough to find the hits and nudge them where they need to be, just time consuming and I would love it if I could slap this on, dial in proper settings, and never have to worry that I'll have to go in and 100% eyeball what it just did

I look like this after about 1/2 hour

 

[::XeS::]

Question: which samples do you use? Sometimes when you create your own samples you can cut wrong the start of the sample so you can have empty space. Don't know if it's the case....

 

[Skinny Viking]

Question: which samples do you use? Sometimes when you create your own samples you can cut wrong the start of the sample so you can have empty space. Don't know if it's the case....

for the kicks I was using clean samples from the kit ... I brought them into the session 1st, double checked that they were cut right to the transient and then used them from there. For the snare, it was another random sample I had that I've used before so I know I already did the cleaning work on it

I had that thought as well when I would encounter this problem with drumagog which is why I got into the habit of always double checking the samples I'm gonna use 1st

besides, even if the samples had been cut wrong with extra space at the beginning, shouldn't the problem be more widespread throughout the track?

 

[::XeS::]

Is it possible that there was some kind of "jump" during the printing? Have you tried to re-print the tracks?

 

[Skinny Viking]

thats a possibility I guess, I can try just reprinting the original track again to see if I can duplicate the problem. Even if thats the case, what could cause that?

 

[Melodeath]

btw, isn´t it strange that the company first offered trigger platinum for ssd guys for 150$ and now there is trigger ex for 129$?!

Yes. At first I was a bit put off by this. But then I realized $20 isn't a reason to get worked up considering we don't have to make TCIs for the rest of the drums using the platinum drum library and instrument maker. That would be a pain.

I haven't noticed any time offset, but I rarely print from Trigger. What I have noticed is sometimes a hit will randomly trigger a very low volume hit in Trigger. This is sometimes fixed by lowering SENSITIVITY (higher sensitivity is causing the hit to be triggered slightly earlier than the real transient, and thus, a lower hit. It can be fixed fool-proofly if I go to the audio track and trim right up to the transient.

I've also noticed a couple times while trying to get my Trigger settings right, Trigger will sometimes trigger a hit, and sometimes not, even if I haven't changed any settings. I guess this is possibly caused by some sort of sound buildup? Hard to explain, but for example, with Leakage suppression, if you played by right before a cymbal hit and right after a cymbal hit, and you had the cymbals set as leakage on the snare track, it might trigger differently. I'm not saying this is where I notice it, but it seems possible that that could cause a difference in triggering. I'm simply noticing it on low-level hits. Sometimes they will trigger, sometimes they wont, and I haven't changed settings. I think if I play the track back from the beginning it triggers correctly every time, but if I start playback close to the hit in question, Trigger is variable.

Anyone else see that?

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

wait what is wrong with the midi? I was planning on using the midi in trigger for an upcoming project.

 

[MetalSound]

Was using it last night to replace some kicks for a slow tempo tune with no real double bass work or crazy kick drum parts. Mostly just a very straight, rock type feel with plenty of space between hits. When I was done I went back in to check the printed track vs. the original which I got into the habit of doing after using Drumagog for a while. Its just so weird but for some reason there had to be something like 20 different hits that were randomly misplaced in time to the original ... anywhere from 5 ms to 25 ms ... sometimes before or sometimes after the original hit. This can't have anything to do with being "phase accurate" as all the other hits were dead on to where they needed to be and in fact when I played both tracks together, the kicks sounded huge and punchy EXCEPT for those 20 or so random hits. Easy enough to snip and nudge but I guess I had just wanted to think that I wouldn't have this problem anymore after switching to Trigger. Drumagog use to do this to me often enough, but at least it would only seem to do it in the more double-bass intensive sections.

That's it ... more of a gripe than anything else. I'll keep messing with it. Didn't seem to be due to my settings ... as I mentioned, all the other hits were fine and there was nothing in the original track at the "mistriggered" hits that sounded any different to maybe cause it to place the new hit off

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

just had a quick idea. maybe you trigger the room/hall from the snare, too?
i used to forget turning it off when i triggered with my alesis dm5.
the hall caused some mistriggers as well.

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ Thanks for the input man but unfortunately no, that wasn't the case. I was running a mono instance on the close mic of the kick and for the snare, it was offsetting random hits from a clean snare track ... basically, a track that I had already replaced and was just retriggering for a 3rd snare sound

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Was using it last night to replace some kicks for a slow tempo tune with no real double bass work or crazy kick drum parts. Mostly just a very straight, rock type feel with plenty of space between hits. When I was done I went back in to check the printed track vs. the original which I got into the habit of doing after using Drumagog for a while. Its just so weird but for some reason there had to be something like 20 different hits that were randomly misplaced in time to the original ... anywhere from 5 ms to 25 ms ... sometimes before or sometimes after the original hit. This can't have anything to do with being "phase accurate" as all the other hits were dead on to where they needed to be and in fact when I played both tracks together, the kicks sounded huge and punchy EXCEPT for those 20 or so random hits. Easy enough to snip and nudge but I guess I had just wanted to think that I wouldn't have this problem anymore after switching to Trigger. Drumagog use to do this to me often enough, but at least it would only seem to do it in the more double-bass intensive sections.

That's it ... more of a gripe than anything else. I'll keep messing with it. Didn't seem to be due to my settings ... as I mentioned, all the other hits were fine and there was nothing in the original track at the "mistriggered" hits that sounded any different to maybe cause it to place the new hit off

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

this is exactly why I'm not using it.
it's better when you turn ADC in Pro Tools off, and usually these problems occur when you've got tempo changes in PT.

so in PTHD with ADC on and tempo changes trigger doesn't work for me.
and since I need one plugin for all the songs and demand absolut phase-consistency (I don't care if ALL the hits are a bit early or late, as long as it's by the same amount) trigger is just not doing it for me so far.
that's a pity though, cause it's got immense potential.
as soon as Slate fixes that (most important) issue I'll be using trigger instead of aptrigga.


btw, I'm always cleaning my trigger tracks manually, so I have zero crosstalk and just the initial transient-spike.
it definitely is a phase-offset-issue and not the settings or bleed or anything

 

[Skinny Viking]

so in PTHD with ADC on and tempo changes trigger doesn't work for me.
and since I need one plugin for all the songs and demand absolut phase-consistency (I don't care if ALL the hits are a bit early or late, as long as it's by the same amount...

Well good to know its not only a problem for people in the PTLE world

also, this ... "I don't care if ALL the hits are a bit early or late, as long as it's by the same amount.." +3541654684654684634

I'd be FINE if they were all consistently off by the SAME AMOUNT of time ... its not like I'm not used to nudging a track a certain amount considering I don't have ADC

Its having to eyeball and listen through a complete track, every drum hit from beginning to end, cause I KNOW there will be something off, I just don't know where thats killing me

Steven or Alex .. would be great if you guys have any insight to this problem

 

[drew_drummer]

Not seen this in Logic. I'm gonna bet that PT's ADC is at fault here and not Trigger.

 

[Skinny Viking]

that may be a valid cause for Lasse's experience with PTHD

but I'm using PTLE, I gots no ADC ... nor any ARR, EEE, ESS, PEE, EEE, SEE, TEE