Guitar Editing

[cloy26]

I have looked, if I have missed it, then I apologize; However, there seems to be a lack of threads about actually editing guitar tracks and a few too many that contain bickering about the excessive use of it.

My question is: What are you supposed to do?

I have ableton and reaper. Should I get acquainted with the warp feature in ableton 8 to stretch my guitar tracks? Or should I just keep them in reaper?

It seems like such a dumb basic question, but I am, like a lot of other guys, not taught proper foundations. Yah, I understand "parallel compression" but can't simply edit a guitar track? I want to make the song pretty tight, but the guitarists refused to track as tight as I wanted them to. So, I am left with some mediocre rhythms that are supposed to sound like Veil of Maya.

Any help or videos or links in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

edit: I simply used parallel compression to illustrate an "advanced" technique hen it really isn't. lol. Just go with the analogy.

 

[Morgan C]

The problem with editing guitars is that if you cut in the middle of a note, it'll always be noticeable. And you can't just stretch or the transient gets fucked up majorly.

You either have to edit-as-you-track (see the shitstorm thread 'so you want a tight mix'), OR if you've already tracked and want tight guitars.. that's a PITA.

I tried just 'beat detective' and just 'elastic audio' (I'm not using PT, just using htis terminology), both were very noticeable. I found the best results were.. let the attack come through untouched, cut the note after a little while, then stretch the sustain. Then crossfade into the next note, repeat. Takes fucking FOREVER but its the only inaudible guitar editing method I've found.

 

[mick thompson]

I found the best results were.. let the attack come through untouched, cut the note after a little while, then stretch the sustain. Then crossfade into the next note, repeat. Takes fucking FOREVER but its the only inaudible guitar editing method I've found.

so will that stop the weird kind of glitching stretched noise when you cross fade them? what if its a very long ringing out note - say an 8 count at 120bpm

 

[Morgan C]

Yes it will, because you crossfade just at the end of the note, when its pretty much dead anyway, and the new one is about to start. You DON'T crossfade between the attack and the stretched part. Just leave that. You crossfade between the end of the stretched part and the attack of the next one.

edit: A picture is worth a thousand words.
The top pic is the original. If the note was too short, this is how I'd stretch it. If it's too long, obviously you don't need to worry about stretching, just crossfade and cut off the end. Unless its REALLY too long, then just imitate this. Notice there is no crossfade in the first split, it's not needed and will make it sound worse.

 

[jval]

you won't be able to get the sound you want unless the tracks sound that way as they're being recorded. I've found extensive guitar editing to be pretty much useless... it's all in the tracking.

 

[B36arin]

I have one question about this subject that I've been thinking a bit about. Do you guys edit the miced track or do you edit the DI track and then reamp the edited track? I don't have a decent amp to try both techniques out with and then compare, has anyone tried both and compared the results? One more question, a bit nooby, is it possible to link the regions in two tracks, so that if I edit the miced track, the DI track's regions will follow the same editing?

 

[GarethSE]

hello

 

[GarethSE]

I have one question about this subject that I've been thinking a bit about. Do you guys edit the miced track or do you edit the DI track and then reamp the edited track? I don't have a decent amp to try both techniques out with and then compare, has anyone tried both and compared the results? One more question, a bit nooby, is it possible to link the regions in two tracks, so that if I edit the miced track, the DI track's regions will follow the same editing?

edit the di's, re-amp laters.

 

[cloy26]

Edit the di's. Its easier to see whats going on.

Gareth, that was all done during tracking though, I mean atleast for the most part.

I Need to learn how to use that technique. The doing a part note by note.... Any tips on that?

 

[GarethSE]

the best tip i can give on doing shit note by note is to not do it all
be a stingy cunt and be liek "fuck off until you can play" because its not worth the time and energy

 

[GarethSE]

oh i didnt really read the original post
and i dunno man
i just look at the transients and cut before them, then put the grid snap on and shift the notes into place then copy and paste the tail and fuck with the fade
get some really bad DI's and do a trial by fire and you will learn quickly what works and what doesnt for your own sanity

 

[Harry Hughes]

I have Ableton, and the warp feature is excellent stuff, so don't be afraid to use it

 

[Ermz]

I prefer to do this using Pro Tools' Elastic Audio. It's worked a charm on bass for the last few projects. I've yet to try it on guitar, but typically I've edited guitars like I would drums. Cut before transient, move section in time, then overlap the audio back over itself. It can be hard to get this to sound artifact-free, so the best way as always is just to track a really good performance to start with. I have a feeling that Elastic Audio, or using Cubase's hitpoints or whatever equivalent they have may be the more transparent option for guitars.

 

[plague_rider]

Its a lot easier to edit with a cleaner tone, you can only really edit a Sin-wave and not hear a difference, so if the notes are clean, the playing is clean, then you have a better chance of editing it and it sounding "ok"

 

[Charlie E.]

Has anyone tried using the Logic Flex tools on a DI track? How about Melodyne? I know Melodyne works pretty decent on acoustic guitars so I wonder how it'd fare with a regular DI.

 

[jipchen]

Has anyone tried using the Logic Flex tools on a DI track? How about Melodyne? I know Melodyne works pretty decent on acoustic guitars so I wonder how it'd fare with a regular DI.

I tried to flex the Bass DIs on a project, and as long as the changes weren't extreme, it went really well. Saves a lot of time over cut-cut-move-move again- cut again - move again - GODDAMNIT CUT AGAIN - fade in - fade out / crossfade -

Didn't try it on the guitars, though. But if you use the flex tool's "slicing" function, it should be pretty much like beat detective. I'm used to the usual editing, but i will try to learn editing via flex tool.

Oh and by the way:

That was quite annoying *_*

 

[abt]

I've worked my ass off on this and I've got to say this is driving me crazy. I really want is an uber tight guitar sound. I've tried editing guitars, quantizing with elastic audio and beat detective and it sounds terrible.

Everything I've tried sounds weird, a bit like a sample player. I've yet to try the method of playing notes in context. I started to, but I only had a very limited amount of time, so once I got started I realized that Pro Tools quick punch was not very usable when your the player and the engineer at the same time.

Could somebody please reiterate for me how this works, as far as I can tell the trick is to play everything in context so you have the correct notes on either side?

So for example if I have a 8 note phrase and the 4th note is bad but the rest is perfect: I select the bad note (assuming the setup is to record only over the selected part), move my cursor to somewhere in front of the phrase, hit record, play the entire phrase again in real time (preferably nailing the bad note), hit stop, if needed drag the ends of the new region so they are appropriately aligned, cross fade the ends of the new region.

 

[TheDriller]

I tried to flex the Bass DIs on a project, and as long as the changes weren't extreme, it went really well. Saves a lot of time over cut-cut-move-move again- cut again - move again - GODDAMNIT CUT AGAIN - fade in - fade out / crossfade -

I edit Guitar and Bass DIs all the time with Flex in Logic 9, and i find it works brilliantly.

either the "Rhythmic" or "Slicing" modes work well on DIs.

any of the very occasional weird notes just get chopped and x-faded on their own.

 

[whoispetty]

+1 on Logic's Flex time.

works great for me.

 

[muckypup1]

Are there any plugins that can help with all this editing crap? I mean like plugins that you don't need Logic or Ableton for?