guitarists' mini-challenge

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

There's a short backing track on my mp3.com page called Jam Backing Track that was a stab at the IMG project, before I even knew the IMG existed.
Do any guitarists want to download it and burn a solo over it?

I created it to put a legato solo in C lydian and F# mixolydian modulating to natural major over, with a natural minor bit over the bridge, but I then thought I'd submit it for people to play over on the UM musician's forum. Despite interest, no one took up the guantlet.

I just thought it might be fun to try to get you guys to do something over it. It's all ready to go.

Any takers?

 

[Mr. Hyde]

I might be interested but I'd have to hear the backing part first and see if any ideas pop into my head.
I couldn't listen to the file without it trying to make me join.

 

[oooarrr33]

When I get my guitar sorted out, I'll have a go, I've been playing a lot of solo stuff of late, so we'll see

 

[Pickslide]

OK i gave it a whirl, I liked the backing track so gave it a good Session.. Dont know if you could call it a solo or not it Almost turned into a mini tune of its own... I dont know if you wanted the solo to be only part of the backing track or the whole of it.. but anyway i played the whole way through .. Let me know if you want the Solo on its own....

P

http://www.wolfpacracing.com/downloads/Pickslide_Solo_Jam_track.mp3

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

I just listened to it, Pickslide! Some really good parts in there, I think. What's interesting is you took a similar approach to the middle 8 section as I did.
It's really cool, man. Like you said, you've picked up the idea and taken it further, established phases that could take it in a complete song direction!

Glad you enjoyed doing it!

Edit: I'd planned to put a solo over the whole thing, but nothing was set in stone. So feel free to play (or have played) what you want(ed) on it.

Lee

 

[Mr. Hyde]

I think I might have done something similar to what you did as well Pickslide. The backing part seems to want that kind of solo over it.

UIO can you post the version with your solo work over it somewhere so I can get it? I'd like to hear what you did.

 

[Eddies cellmate]

Very cool Pickslide! Some very tasty soloing!

I liked the backing track too, nice and jumpy with lots of energy and some interesting changes/dynamics!

 

[Pickslide]

Thanks Guys... I think i cut the ending off by mistake..

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

Mr. Hyde, I'll have to record it first. I have most of a solo in mind that I was going to record before I had the idea of letting others solo over it.
Once it's recorded, I'll have to post it on my IUMA.com page since I can now only have 3 files on my mp3.com page
I'll put a link to the IUMA page once it's on there and been approved for listening.
I'm glad people like the backing track.

Is anyone interested in another little mini-challenge? I can knock up these kind of things almost everyday. It'll just take a few days for them to get approved.
If there's interest in this, I'm happy to keep pumping them out, in many different styles.

Lee

 

[rabies]

Hi Lee,

I grabbed this today and poked around with it. yea..I would be interested in you posting little things like this now and then. Its a break from what I normally play - pentatonic major and minor scale. I don't use modes (other than Ionian and Aeolian) very often..and its something I need to work on.

I'm a bit confused though. I am not sure how you are throwing f# Mixolidian in your solo. You sure you don't mean G Mixolidian? Help me out...I thougth I knew my modes..maybe I don't!

 

[Pickslide]

IM interested in anything like this, its a good practice aid when the backing is of this quality...

Lets hear some others Versions from you guys...Id love to hear how other`s tackled it ....

P

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

Hey Rabies, you're right. My mistake. I must have thought the riff went to F# and E, not G and F, when I posted that. I'm listening to it now. F# mixolydian would sound horrible lol.
Sorry man.
If you want to learn more about modes, I'd recommend checking out a lot of Brett Garsed's and Tony MacAlpine's stuff. Playing over shifting progressions makes you take a modal approach, 'cause you have to play through the changes, not just jam a natural major or minor melody over them, jumping positions all the time, discontinuing your phrases. Tony and Brett are fantastic at this.

 

[Mr. Hyde]

If you play Maiden you've used the modes fellas.

Take any major scale, C Major for instance;

Notes:
CDEFGABC = Major scale = Ionian Mode
DEFGABCD = C Major scale played from D to D = D Dorian mode

Carry this out and you have the seven different modes.

Ionian = Major scale
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
MixoLydian
Aeolean = Natural Minor
Locrian

Learn the major scale for any key and it's relative minor and play connect the dots between the patterns.

Most of the Maiden songs that I'm aware of just shift the modal patterns around. Usually up or down a whole or half step from E.

 

[Eddies cellmate]

Originally posted by Ultima Ibanez Overlord
Hey Rabies, you're right. My mistake. I must have thought the riff went to F# and E, not G and F, when I posted that. I'm listening to it now. F# mixolydian would sound horrible lol.
Sorry man.
If you want to learn more about modes, I'd recommend checking out a lot of Brett Garsed's and Tony MacAlpine's stuff. Playing over shifting progressions makes you take a modal approach, 'cause you have to play through the changes, not just jam a natural major or minor melody over them, jumping positions all the time, discontinuing your phrases. Tony and Brett are fantastic at this.

Tony MacAlpine's "Edge of Insanity" is still one of my favorite "guitar" albums.

 

[rabies]

Hey Hyde,

I think Maiden also throws in a lot of pentatonic riffs into their solos. I always had a real problem with that..which is why I can't just 'wing' a maiden sounding solo. I can run pentatonic scales all day..but doing just pentatonic does not a maiden solo make.

I'm also trying to learn to incorporate the modes in my playing. That is quite a bit more challenging (except ionian and aeolean). You guys have any tips on how to creatively use both sets of scales in a solo? I am not sure of the relationship between the two sets of scales..though I am sure one exisits.

Which modes do Maiden use? I would guess Dorian/Aeolean. I wonder if Dave and Adrian even know the modes themselves. I doubt it. They probably just wing it...and still do better than me.

 

[Mr. Hyde]

There is a pentatonic scale for each of the modes too. The pentatonic scales are derived from the full scales so there is a relationship between them.

Maiden seem to stick pretty close to certain scales when soloing but Dave and Adrian both have their things that they add to spice it up. Janick seems to be a mixture of the two. I'm not sure if they are aware of what scales they are playing when they are doing it but the Aeolean mode will get you pretty far with their stuff.

I'm not really heavy into theory especially when I'm playing. I very rarely analyze anything that I play. I think I might be a lot better if I did though.

My point about the modes is that, even though you might not be aware of it, you've been playing the modes all along because they are derived from the basic major scale.
Take E minor and play a one octave pattern from E to E in multiple positions on the neck. While you are doing it you will notice certain patterns that appear over and over. These basic patterns will be present in all of the modes relative to the key you are in. If you are playing in E minor, using only the notes from E minor but playing them from B to B will give you B Phrygian mode.
You already know the patterns but you might not have made the connection yet.

A good place to start is in the key you most often play in.

Another thing to remember about the modes is that you don't necessarily switch keys with each chord change. You can play over the progression E minor, C Major, D Major like Maiden does without ever leaving the basic patterns for E minor, of course you would probably want to vary the notes.

 

[TravisW]

Just remember this: music comes first, then theory. Theory is merely a way to explain how music is constructed, it's not an end in and of itself. If you want to play Maiden stuff, learn the Aolian, major, and minor pentatonic stuff yourself. Actually, learn all to modes to see how music hangs together, then forget as much as you can in order to play spontaneously.

 

[Mr. Hyde]

True, the music came first and then the theory to explain it.
Check out the history of the modes. The names came from actual groups of people by those names. I can't remember now if all of the modes were names of societies, or just some like Phrygian, Dorian, and Aeolean. Anyway there were huge disagreements about music back then. I can't remember if they actually physically fought over who was right. They wanted to find the perfect scale and prove it mathematically. Our ears wouldn't cooperate. Anyway this is sketchy in my memory since it was about 15 years ago that I did that research for a school project.

Some musicians use theory as some kind of absolute justification for right or wrong in choice of notes. It's true however that a song made up entirely of stacked minor seconds probably wouldn't sound so good. Might be a hit these days though.

I think that memorizing certain patterns of notes and how they sound to the point that they can be used automatically without thinking about it might be better than "forgetting" them though.

Good points TravisW.

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

Well, I just quickly recorded something over the backing. I was listening to some Eric Johnson earlier, so I scrapped most of my ideas and decided to try to come up with something in his style. I think it sounds kind of like him, but mostly because of the patch I wrote to get his kind of sound (I used the GT-3's emulator and used a Soldano sound for a smooth distortion with lots of delay).
I just uploaded it to my IUMA page.

The address is http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Lee_Cassidy/

I just went there to see if I could play it yet. Apparently it's not meant to be available for streaming yet, but when I clicked on "download", the file streamed, so all seem ok.
If anyone hasn't got the backing track and wants to grab it to play over, feel free to head to the page (or my mp3.com page, in my quote) and grab it; file name Jam Backing Track.

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

Addendum: I'll start work on another "mini-challenge" if anyone's interested. Let me know what sort of style you'd like to do and I'll do my best to come up with something like it.

Lee