Guitarsound like Kreators Hordes of Chaos

[HvO]

Hi, how can I get this crispy guitar sound?




Pickup? Amp? Cab? Mic?



I personally use a EMG HZ Pickup (like this much more than my EMG 81) and a Peavey 6505 > Mesa Recto Cab (> SM57).

whatever I do, I dont't get this crisp in the Highs...


thanks in advance!
HvO

 

[Mago]

That awesomeness is only because of the video

srsly though: maybe lowpassing higher, or some boost around 8-10k for some more air?

since richardson did the mix chances are high that that's an 5150, but I dunno cause I think they tracked it "live", so maybe they used those tracks. not sure if he also tracked this one

 

[Skinny Viking]

Is it just me, or maybe the video ... does the left side guitar sound more prominent throughout the song? Maybe its just got more bite to its tone or something but it keeps making me tilt my head to the left as I listen

 

[Mago]

^ no I thought the same.
Since it was recorded live I guess left and right are different players and guitars, maybe one of them has more prominent attack or a brighter guitar

 

[Nimvi]

Is it just me, or maybe the video ... does the left side guitar sound more prominent throughout the song? Maybe its just got more bite to its tone or something but it keeps making me tilt my head to the left as I listen

Noticed this too... I kept waiting for the guitars to become even in the stereospectrum after the intro, but then they never did

On topic: Left guitar sounds like a pretty raw 6505 to me. Hard to tell what cab it is. I don't think it's that crisp in the highs btw, but I guess that's just a matter of taste

Btw, I have similar issues as you with my 6505. I can't get the highs to sound the way I want them to sound and I think the amp sounds quite cloudy, eventough I use a ec-1000 with fresh strings through a ts9 straight into the 6505 with an ENGL v30 4x12 cab. I consider myself a decent player, so in my logic this should sound like hell unleashed, but I have to admit it leaves me wanting.
So, a thing I like to do is to use an EQ before the amp (either pedal or a plugin on the way out if it's a reamp), and then boost a bit around 1500-2000hz and maybe cut a bit around the muddy zone. This makes the amp sounds a bit more agressive in the mids/highs to me and it reduces the mud. I know most people use EQpedals in their effectsloop, but I think before the amp is much more subtle; it's like you can change your pickupsound to your taste. Ofcourse you shouldn't go overboard with it, but this might make you enjoy your amp more.

 

[Mago]

^ what settings do you use for highs and presence on the 6505?

 

[Nimvi]

^ what settings do you use for highs and presence on the 6505?

Usually around 4-5 on highs and 7-8 on pres. I've tried turning them up, but I feel like they affect the wrong frequencies for my taste. Especially the high-eq sounds very nasty to me above 5.
In all honesty, I'm not sure the 6505 is the amp for me lately. I love its distortionshape (that's why i bought it), but I always find myself trying to "eq the 6505 out of it" if you know what I mean. It also has this wide 600 hz spike when I try to record it. Tried different cabs, different mics, different angles, and I always end up making a huge cut there in the mix. I would like to get as close as possible to the final result during the setup phase, but I can't seem to get that spike under control. The amp EQ doesn't seem to change anything about that either Pretty frustrating.

Could this problem be stocktube related? Cause I never hear that issue on other people's recordings. (it could also very well be that i'm just overcritical about my own tones btw, I am the type of guy who overthinks everything he does too much. Oh look, here I am, editing this post for the 3rd time in 5 minutes...)

Edit: sorry for the derail btw...

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ maybe the room is causing the spike?

 

[Nimvi]

I've thought about that too, but it also happens with impulses. Sec, i'll just record something with an impulse really quickly to demonstrate

EDIT:
Here's just a quick example. One version is what it sounds like straight into the spreshigh impulse, one version is just a quick rough EQ to show what I think it should sound closer to. The cut might be a bit too extreme, but it's just an example without a backingtrack anyway

No EQ: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2410561/Sneapforums/6505 example noEQ.mp3
EQ: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2410561/Sneapforums/6505 example EQ.mp3

Here's what my guitars ended up sounding like on the last real attempt for my album, with heavy EQ(!!careful, much louder than the previous samples!!):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2410561/Sneapforums/Emergence 11i 17-08-2011.mp3

 

[Mago]

Usually around 4-5 on highs and 7-8 on pres. I've tried turning them up, but I feel like they affect the wrong frequencies for my taste. Especially the high-eq sounds very nasty to me above 5.
In all honesty, I'm not sure the 6505 is the amp for me lately. I love its distortionshape (that's why i bought it), but I always find myself trying to "eq the 6505 out of it" if you know what I mean. It also has this wide 600 hz spike when I try to record it. Tried different cabs, different mics, different angles, and I always end up making a huge cut there in the mix. I would like to get as close as possible to the final result during the setup phase, but I can't seem to get that spike under control. The amp EQ doesn't seem to change anything about that either Pretty frustrating.

Could this problem be stocktube related? Cause I never hear that issue on other people's recordings. (it could also very well be that i'm just overcritical about my own tones btw, I am the type of guy who overthinks everything he does too much. Oh look, here I am, editing this post for the 3rd time in 5 minutes...)

Edit: sorry for the derail btw...

cant listen to the clips right now, will do later

but it's pretty weird, cause I thought maybe you'd have the highs too high, but you're using pretty reasonable settings...for the same reason I do btw, above 6ish it tends to get very heavy in the highmids, so I leave them bellow that and play with presence around 8-9.
So yeah, if it isnt that and other cabs have the same then maybe the amp isn't for you.
I still have the stock tubes in in my 6505+ btw...but Im happy with the sound I got, without any need for EQ stuff (through a Randall 4x12 V30)

 

[Nimvi]

Yea, so I figured too. My amp settings aren't too far from the "standard settings" I see posted on here. I'm thinking about trying out some other amps to see if there is one that fits my personal style without lots of processing. A friend of mine has a DSL 100, and on it's classic gain mode, I got some pretty cool sounds with relative ease. So maybe I should try that, the jcm800 or the new jvm line to begin with.

Never going to give up on the 6505 though, since it's just a great amp to have, and I'm sure it will see some use on other projects in the future.

Thanks for your help btw guys, and again, sorry for the derail HvO!

 

[Mago]

Listened to the clips, and I figure the kind of scoopedness you'd want from it is hard to get with the EQ settings on it...it is a mid-heavy amp after all, in it's very unique way
maybe take it to someone to mod the tonestack for you? mid and high knobs, maybe that get's you closer to the ballpark...

I think the JCM800 is an awesome amp, but it sounds really different.
The JVM is even more high-mid heavy then the peavey with high high settings. For that beast you need to EQ quite some high mids out anyway (was my experience when I played it, and also one sneapster had a mix on here and said he needed to carve out quite a bit iirc), so I doubt that you'd be happy with it, even if it is an awesome amp after all.
At least that's my impression from the clips you posted!

 

[Nimvi]

Thanks, that's some good info to consider! And I agree, the 6505 has something typical about it which is awesome for many things, but no matter what knob you turn..it's always there. The scoop on the clips was a bit exaggerated btw, to point out which part of the sound usually bothers me while playing the amp. The tonestack mod might not be a bad idea. I really like the overall character of the amp which seems pretty unique, so if I just had a bit more control over it's tone, I think I would be very happy with it!

I'll stop posting in this thread now btw, cause I feel like a dick for hijacking someone else's topic, eventough that wasn't planned. Thanks for the helpful insights!

 

[Omega_Void]

...since richardson did the mix...

I believe Colin Richardson has been known to use the Dolby trick to enhance highs, maybe there's some of that going on?

 

[HvO]

hey, thanks for your replies!

I believe Colin Richardson has been known to use the Dolby trick to enhance highs, maybe there's some of that going on?

Dolby trick

 

[Omega_Void]

Dolby noise reduction uses a compander type of process on the highs:
Top end is compressed and boosted when going to tape, to get better SNR over the tape hiss.
The playback side uses an expander to drop the highs back to where they were on the way in.
An old trick is to apply to Dolby processing to the recording, but not on the playback; it gives a smoother boost to the highs than a simple eq.

 

[SentencedToBurn]

its good to see kreator is still gayin it up.
is manowar still at it?

 

[Nebulous]

Yeah that was a pretty poor clip

 

[TomiR]

That guitar has that "squish" that the ENGL Invader had when I still had one, so it might be one of those since Kreator are using Invaders if I remember correctly.