Has any one lost respect for Nile, Behemoth, Amon Amarth etc?!?

[General Zod]

How about artistic integrity and all of that?

Their art is their music. And if that music is performed with intensity and passion, it's not compromised. That the band backstage waiting to go on next isn't tr00 or kvlt, doesn't compromise the artistic qualities of music written years ago and miles away. When Primordial played Sweden Rock, Nemtheanga joked a few times how they were opening for Poison (since Poison was the next band on the overall schedule). So my question is, did "Coffin Ships" cease to be art when Primordial agreed to play for their Swedish fans (with Poison... and oh my dear Odin... Disturbed), when they actually took the stage at Sweden Rock (being fully aware of the billing order), or did Primordial's art cease to be when Posion stepped on the stage? It's just so tough to know.

Touting the virtues of Paganism before a bunch of white washed suburbanites in Affliction apparel is a compromise of their original intention as artists, I'd most definitely surmise.

"Touting the virtues of Paganism" before the tr00 & kvlt is merely preaching to the choir. And "touting the virtues of Paganism" is no less silly than touting the virtues of Christianity. Actually, mathematically speaking, it's even sillier, as your touting the virtues of multiple fake gods instead of just one.

Performing live shouldn't be about promotion, rather than an intimate expression to those who share a connection and appreciation of your art.

And what exactly are bands suppose to do? Quiz all concert goers before entering, to ensure only people who "appreciate their art" are in attendance? Perhaps ask them to name all the original members of Mayhem at the time of the recording of De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas prior to gaining entrance?

ah i see your argument and yet how many people who would otherwise love to see one of these bands in concert would rather shove a red-hot poker up their ass than go to this festival?

So, the fact that your argument is so ridiculous, proves my argument wrong? Because you'd rather do bodily harm to yourself, than be sullied by the presence of Marilyn Manson fans, makes what I'm saying wrong? Wow... I thought I'd have to debate a Christian for an argument that circular.

i reserve the right to respect them that much less for associating themselves with bands that co-opt our subculture for a big label paycheck.

Our sub-culture? Not sure about the rest of you, but I wasn't raised a viking, a pagan or a satanist. And name me five bands, on "major labels", that are guilty of this? Keeping in mind, Century Media and Roadrunner do not now, nor have they ever, qualified as a "major label".

Here fucking here RiA! This is the essence of what distinguishes art from consumer driven fad, and the two are certainly mutually exclusive.

It never ceases to amaze me, how a bunch of people who claim it's all about art (e.g. the music), constantly make it about everything but (labels, stage wear, tour line ups, etc.).

Zod

 

[Vittra]

Everyone is glazing over the point. This isn't about elitism.

Let me present you an example:

Cradle of Filth.

The crowds that this band attracts are the obnoxious, ignorant masses that care more about looks and appearance than the music itself. These are the people RIA describes. A incredibly low percentile of the people at these shows truely care about the music, as those who would generally find no substance in this band.

Do you want YOUR band, who has truly worked hard, is incredibly passionate about the music you create, and undoubtedly has talent and ability to be exposed to THESE type of people? What is the point in that, other than to make money? If your goal is to get money, than yes, your artistic integrity is questionable... if you are trying to just profit off of stupidity however, then that is at least more valid.

With that being said, Amon Amarth have been mediocre for quite some time. Their sound has been subdued, far more bland and produced compared to the old, crushing and more unrestrained feel apparent on Versus The World and earlier works. In addition to this, their approach to the concepts they present are cartoonish in nature, making them easily marketable by Metal Blade, compared to say.. Primordial, who's subject matter is far more sincere and serious.

Regardless, Twilight of the Thunder God is in fact their best work since Versus the World. That doesn't really say much in general though.

Behemoth isn't even worth mentioning.

 

[EVERLOSTINDEADETERNITY]

I wasnt necessarily disagreeing with the elitism thing I just know that when I se a kid that likes Amon Amarth and has only heard two albums and I have been listening since Once Sent I knew that they are inferior to me. Thats how I view it. If I still like it then I listen but I loathe those that like it but dont understand where it came from.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Everlost, can you send me a spreadsheet of your album collection? I need to rid myself of any similarities.

 

[lurch70]

I wasnt necessarily disagreeing with the elitism thing I just know that when I se a kid that likes Amon Amarth and has only heard two albums and I have been listening since Once Sent I knew that they are inferior to me. Thats how I view it. If I still like it then I listen but I loathe those that like it but dont understand where it came from.

never understood this type of nonsense.

 

[einride]

it's friday -- stop arguing on the internet about super stupid shit like this and listen to TKU + drink beer

 

[Krilons Resa]

tough crowd.

 

[lurch70]

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Our sub-culture? Not sure about the rest of you, but I wasn't raised a viking, a pagan or a satanist. And name me five bands, on "major labels", that are guilty of this? Keeping in mind, Century Media and Roadrunner do not now, nor have they ever, qualified as a "major label".

dude, i'm talking about real metal, not satanism. some of us here are in fact metalheads. five bands? uh, slipknot, disturbed, linkin park, marilyn manson, limp bizkit, korn, evanescence etc...ie false metal?

 

[Reign in Acai]

Their art is their music. And if that music is performed with intensity and passion, it's not compromised. That the band backstage waiting to go on next isn't tr00 or kvlt, doesn't compromise the artistic qualities of music written years ago and miles away. When Primordial played Sweden Rock, Nemtheanga joked a few times how they were opening for Poison (since Poison was the next band on the overall schedule). So my question is, did "Coffin Ships" cease to be art when Primordial agreed to play for their Swedish fans (with Poison... and oh my dear Odin... Disturbed), when they actually took the stage at Sweden Rock (being fully aware of the billing order), or did Primordial's art cease to be when Poison stepped on the stage? It's just so tough to know.

A band's integrity isn't compromised over sharing the stage with some shitty hipster bands once in a blue moon. We're discussing the sacrifice of one's vision for the sake of the public at large. All three of these bands have had a dramatic change in sound which cater to jump da fuck up fogetaboutits. Couple this change with a mass merchandise shill of bobbleheads, backpacks, dozens upon dozens of shitty shirt designs, ridiculous music videos, and what we have is K.I.S.S in the forest.

"Touting the virtues of Paganism" before the tr00 & kvlt is merely preaching to the choir. And "touting the virtues of Paganism" is no less silly than touting the virtues of Christianity. Actually, mathematically speaking, it's even sillier, as your touting the virtues of multiple fake gods instead of just one.

We all have our differing beliefs, none of which can be validated until death, so whether you consider them silly is subjective. But isn't reasonable for the listener to expect the musician to hold a level of sanctity to the beliefs in which they have subscribed?

And what exactly are bands suppose to do? Quiz all concert goers before entering, to ensure only people who "appreciate their art" are in attendance? Perhaps ask them to name all the original members of Mayhem at the time of the recording of De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas prior to gaining entrance?

Performing with like minded bands to ensure that your base audience isn't subjected to muck that they wouldn't drop a kopeck for, let alone listen to gratis, isn't much to ask.

So, the fact that your argument is so ridiculous, proves my argument wrong? Because you'd rather do bodily harm to yourself, than be sullied by the presence of Marilyn Manson fans, makes what I'm saying wrong? Wow... I thought I'd have to debate a Christian for an argument that circular.

Getting raped by 2 black guys, getting raped by 3 black guys.

It never ceases to amaze me, how a bunch of people who claim it's all about art (e.g. the music), constantly make it about everything but (labels, stage wear, tour line ups, etc.).

Would you rather see Michaelangelo's paintings set in the Sistine Chapel or alongside the New Jersey turnpike?

 

[lurch70]

what we have is K.I.S.S in the forest

Would you rather see Michaelangelo's paintings set in the Sistine Chapel or alongside the New Jersey turnpike?

all i have to say as a closing argument ... is that sometimes you gotta pay the bills and feed your family.

I am sure most of us here don't choose to do what we do work wise to be tr00 to oneself ... but rather to survive.
Same shit with these bands where once they get to a level that they do their thing full time, they have to make sure they can make a living ... and at that point you always have to compromise somewhat, no matter what career path you choose.

if you are Graveland, and put out a record once every 2 years and don't tour ... then you can be true to your art. But I bet the guy has a day job.

 

[Hell Mike]

all i have to say as a closing argument ... is that sometimes you gotta pay the bills and feed your family.

yeah, so get a job

and at that point you always have to compromise somewhat, no matter what career path you choose.

so get a job that doesn't have anything to do with your ehavy fockin' free time.

Zod: festival gigs don't count.

That's all I'm gonna say about this for now. I just lost my drivers' license for the most stupid reason (MINOR accident in fucking MAY where noone was hurt and the material damage was so fucking minor I'd pay it three times over rather than lose my license even if it's just for two months) so I'm so fucking pissed off I can't think straight and I want to kill the world. Way to ruin my fucking weekend fucking oppressive fascist gay regime.

 

[lurch70]

sucks footbalm ... come to America, land of the free, home of Wall Street bonuses to the undeserving few.

 

[dorian gray]

Would you rather see Michaelangelo's paintings set in the Sistine Chapel or alongside the New Jersey turnpike?

 

[dorian gray]

sucks footbalm ... come to America, land of the free, home of Wall Street bonuses to the undeserving few.

You can also drive here without a license. Illegal of course but hundreds of thousands - literally - are doing it this very moment. Some 18% of drivers are uninsured also. Good times.

 

[lurch70]

everytime I have someone from Europe stay over and they see me have one drink and then drive they freak out. I know that laws are tough in Europe with drinking and driving but from my exeperience ... everytime I am over there I am lucky to pass one cop car in 2 weeks. here I pass 10 just on my way to work.

do cops sodomize people in Europe when they pull you over? the fear of police is rampant across the continent.

 

[Krilons Resa]

 

[einride]

yeah, so get a job

so get a job that doesn't have anything to do with your ehavy fockin' free time.

you know, i used to hold this exact same position BUT as you should be well aware, especially now with the kiddo and all, there is SO LITTLE free time for a workin' man that i've begun doubting my position

 

[MFJ]

boo-hoo, everybody. boo-hoo.

i guess i must be true and kvlt because i stayed out of this entire argument. OH NO I POSTED!

shit, i guess that wild ride is over.

 

[Hell Mike]

you know, i used to hold this exact same position BUT as you should be well aware, especially now with the kiddo and all, there is SO LITTLE free time for a workin' man that i've begun doubting my position

As long as the are no compromises, it's all good. Problem is, that's pretty rare.