Having fun with SD2 MIDI mapping, combining snares etc...

[Mattayus]

I've spent the last few mix sessions for my band's demo concentrating on the snare, and striving really hard to use Toontrack 'in the box' for snares and toms in particular (kick is replaced).

My drummer has really dynamic playing, lots of ruffs, rolls, ghost notes aplenty, so I really didn't want to spend all the time in the world murdering the MIDI he wrote with a multi-to-fuck-sampled snare with awkward triggering (a la Drumagog)

So anyway here's where I'm at with shit at the moment - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4128689/woop.mp3

That's a blend of TMF and Avatar snares. The black beauty from SD2 and the Pearl Masters 15x5 (I think?) maple from TMF. I'm having a whale of a time with the MIDI nodes at the moment. Stacking snares, and adding cool features, like in this example every time the MIDI is mapped with a velocity of over 121+ the main "centre hit" sample combines with a rimshot, to give the impression of a really hard hit.

I'm nowhere near done playing around, and wish I had discovered this shit sooner!

Anyone else do this? Any thoughts on the mix? Share your examples?

 

[RedDog]

Good idea blending in the rimshot! It's like a 9mm in the FACE!

 

[Tommy Evans]

sounds dope to me!

 

[mva801]

That's a blend of TMF and Avatar snares. The black beauty from SD2 and the Pearl Masters 15x5 (I think?) maple from TMF. I'm having a whale of a time with the MIDI nodes at the moment. Stacking snares, and adding cool features, like in this example every time the MIDI is mapped with a velocity of over 121+ the main "centre hit" sample combines with a rimshot, to give the impression of a really hard hit.

Shit man I think that sounds pretty rad. Care to elaborate just a touch on Stacking snares and adding that rimshot above 121 velocity? Are you adding an x-drum and placing 2 midi notes, or is there a feature in Superior that allows you to blend?

 

[osum]

Shit man I think that sounds pretty rad. Care to elaborate just a touch on Stacking snares and adding that rimshot above 121 velocity? Are you adding an x-drum and placing 2 midi notes, or is there a feature in Superior that allows you to blend?

I always do it like here:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfKRzqFLHqg&list=UUC1smcqJ8vcV3JR8OzyuRqw&index=7&feature=plcp[/ame]

@Mattayus

Great, sounds very cool imho!

 

[Mishbang]

I always do it like here:

Cool video, I didn't realise you could do it like this! The way I have been doing it is in Cubase using a Transformer MIDI Insert on the Drum track and assigning each snare to a different note which is all linked to note D1, but this is way easier

 

[Mattayus]

Shit man I think that sounds pretty rad. Care to elaborate just a touch on Stacking snares and adding that rimshot above 121 velocity? Are you adding an x-drum and placing 2 midi notes, or is there a feature in Superior that allows you to blend?

Yeah check out that youtube vid ^ and also Toontrack have some 'how to' videos on the SD2 page.

It's all under the 'Mapping' tab in your SD2 interface. I'm using the Metal Foundry as my main library, and bringing in snares from Sd2 Avatar kit via x-drum. Then you go to your mapping, highlight your x-drum with a right click, and drag each articulation onto the MIDI note of the same articulation of your TMF snare.

So for example, the TMF snare is D1 for a 'centre' hit. Drag the 'centre' hit from your x-drum onto D1 and hit "join". That will then make a node.

For the rimshot idea, drag the rimshot articulation (from both snares) onto the centre hit also, so it joins it, then highlight that node (right click the note on the MIDI piano roll at the bottom) and you can see on the right it will ask where this node will be triggered. It's set at 0-127 by default, so set the '0' parameter to your desired velocity. Mine is set at 121-127, because my default input velocity is 120 (feels about right for normal playing) so i can always up that velocity on very heavy parts or slow parts that need a nice extra bit of 'oomph' behind them!

 

[Mattayus]

FWIW, this is the sort of snare sound I'm going for - somewhere between these two:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nfoMPldPU4&ob=av2e[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK588zl0l2M&ob=av2n[/ame]

They're fairly different, but inherently have very similar qualities. Both have that really natural woody 'chock!' which I love. Very natural sounding, and that's something I'm really aiming for. Not there yet but it's getting there...

If anyone else gets close to that sound only using Superior libraries and tells me how, that would be awesome!

EDIT: Getting closer? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4128689/wood.mp3

 

[smy1]

Shit man, those drums sound rad! Playing too! If you told me it was real drums and just quantized/mixed I would have believed you!

Great mid-90s sound you got there! That was when drumtones where best, imnsho!

 

[mva801]

Yeah check out that youtube vid ^ and also Toontrack have some 'how to' videos on the SD2 page.

It's all under the 'Mapping' tab in your SD2 interface. I'm using the Metal Foundry as my main library, and bringing in snares from Sd2 Avatar kit via x-drum. Then you go to your mapping, highlight your x-drum with a right click, and drag each articulation onto the MIDI note of the same articulation of your TMF snare.

So for example, the TMF snare is D1 for a 'centre' hit. Drag the 'centre' hit from your x-drum onto D1 and hit "join". That will then make a node.

For the rimshot idea, drag the rimshot articulation (from both snares) onto the centre hit also, so it joins it, then highlight that node (right click the note on the MIDI piano roll at the bottom) and you can see on the right it will ask where this node will be triggered. It's set at 0-127 by default, so set the '0' parameter to your desired velocity. Mine is set at 121-127, because my default input velocity is 120 (feels about right for normal playing) so i can always up that velocity on very heavy parts or slow parts that need a nice extra bit of 'oomph' behind them!

Alright thanks for the tips man! Figured there was some way to do that, I'll read up and play around with it!

 

[FIXXXER]

sounds great man!

i'm standing n front of the same problem. i can't get TMF snares to sound any good,
also replacing the snare fucks all the "non hard hit" playing up, no waaaay to trigger this properly.

any chance for a tutorial!?
the mapping seems really odd to me no clue how it's working...

cheers
S.

 

[osum]

EDIT: Getting closer? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4128689/wood.mp3

Really nice sound except the toms. Those TMF Toms just sound crap itself. The Avatar Toms are waaay better imho.

Any more detailed info on the Snare (and Kick, is that plain TMF too?) Processing itself? It sounds really really good!

 

[Mattayus]

Shit man, those drums sound rad! Playing too! If you told me it was real drums and just quantized/mixed I would have believed you!

Great mid-90s sound you got there! That was when drumtones where best, imnsho!

Thanks man! Yeah my drummer is a fantastic writer as well as player. I love how human he makes everything feel, he plays with a lot of soul.

Really nice sound except the toms. Those TMF Toms just sound crap itself. The Avatar Toms are waaay better imho.

Any more detailed info on the Snare (and Kick, is that plain TMF too?) Processing itself? It sounds really really good!

The second snare or the first? In hindsight, the first clip is shit I mean it's ok but not for what I'm after, the second one is much nearer what I want.

The kick is Slate kick 10z3, tuned up, mids sucked out, high pass at 50hz. But the Sonor kick from TMF is in the OH and room mics. They blend really well.

Toms... ehh... they are a bit shit, but they fit the mix when everything is playing together. I haven't really found any that suit more. I think my processing is to blame more so than the actual samples. I've still got experimenting to do on that front!

Snare (on the last clip) is no longer blended with anything. It's literally just one on its own - the Rogers Wood from SD2. Nicely compressed, some of the boxy 'pop' sucked out (680hz with a fairly narrow Q), tiny high end boost and low mid boost, and a little transient on the top mic to draw out some of the ring, cos it was a little dead sounding.

sounds great man!

i'm standing n front of the same problem. i can't get TMF snares to sound any good,
also replacing the snare fucks all the "non hard hit" playing up, no waaaay to trigger this properly.

any chance for a tutorial!?
the mapping seems really odd to me no clue how it's working...

cheers
S.

Will do man, lemme work on this shit for a bit and once I'm happy with it I'll do some sort of tutorial.

**EDIT**
After playing about some more, here's a mix with all instruments - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4128689/Darkadian/nmr.mp3

 

[osum]

**EDIT**
After playing about some more, here's a mix with all instruments - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4128689/Darkadian/nmr.mp3

That sounds huuuuge, great sound!

 

[AudioGeekZine]

cool trick, very smart. I don't think this is possible with SSD4 yet.

 

[FPSR]

I am definitely going to try this out. Cheers

 

[Mattayus]

Thanks dudes!
I can't take credit for the rimshot idea though, it was suggested by a friend a few months back, and I just thought "fuck that, too much work!" at the time But I'm thankful I gave it a try.

Here's a longer clip of the track - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4128689/Darkadian/snippet.mp3

Thoughts? How's the snare sitting in the mix? My ears are shot.

 

[MIAnn]

Thanks dudes!
I can't take credit for the rimshot idea though, it was suggested by a friend a few months back, and I just thought "fuck that, too much work!" at the time But I'm thankful I gave it a try.

Here's a longer clip of the track - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4128689/Darkadian/snippet.mp3

Thoughts? How's the snare sitting in the mix? My ears are shot.

only listening on laptop speakers but that sounds fucking good to me!

 

[mva801]

Sounds pretty sick to me! Are you mixing the rest of the drums in SD2? Or are you bussing them out and processing them seperately? Also like the verb man. Is that room mics or an external reverb?

 

[TwoGOneSee]

Yeah check out that youtube vid ^ and also Toontrack have some 'how to' videos on the SD2 page.

It's all under the 'Mapping' tab in your SD2 interface. I'm using the Metal Foundry as my main library, and bringing in snares from Sd2 Avatar kit via x-drum. Then you go to your mapping, highlight your x-drum with a right click, and drag each articulation onto the MIDI note of the same articulation of your TMF snare.

So for example, the TMF snare is D1 for a 'centre' hit. Drag the 'centre' hit from your x-drum onto D1 and hit "join". That will then make a node.

For the rimshot idea, drag the rimshot articulation (from both snares) onto the centre hit also, so it joins it, then highlight that node (right click the note on the MIDI piano roll at the bottom) and you can see on the right it will ask where this node will be triggered. It's set at 0-127 by default, so set the '0' parameter to your desired velocity. Mine is set at 121-127, because my default input velocity is 120 (feels about right for normal playing) so i can always up that velocity on very heavy parts or slow parts that need a nice extra bit of 'oomph' behind them!

Dude... This rules... Thanks so much for clueing (sp?) me into this!