Heathen Pride, Heathen Honour, Heathen victory!

[Resonator]

We embrace what we want to embrace. Unfortunately, only you can change this for yourself. I like Amon Amarth and I know that the lyric writer and the graphic artist have both seen it coming. Most notably, the fact that Thor carries the symbol of infinity all over his hammer tells me something about Thor.

 

[Heathen_Pride]

In all honesty Norse beliefs are utterly idiotic, at least as much so as Christian mythology. I understand the word pantheon, although I realize that having just learned what it meant you may think others won't understand it. You claim to promote free thought and then endorse bashing Christianity. You understand that that implies poor logic and a great deal of spittle flying, yes?
As far as destroying pagan religions, that was a political, rather than religious, process. My understanding with the norse religions is that it was necessary for the kings, who converted willingly, to convert their subjects to both justify their rule and establish unity. As far as the various festivals, that's both so commonly known and so fucking irrelevant that I have to wonder why you included it.
Obviously I like this forum, the content of the forum does not consist of "heathen pride, heathen honour, heathen victory!" (because buying expensive handmade leather goods will bring back the old ways), it's about Amon Amarth.

Sorry but I meant "thread" not forum, apologies.

Yes i promote free thought and yes I endorse bashing christianity. There is nothing illogical there. What would be illogical is if I said I promoted free thought and then said you all MUST bash christianity. I do not impose my beliefs on others, I despise that practise.

The abolotion of pagan beliefs was done to convert the population to christianity. There may have been political overtones but those overtones came after the religous motivation. That motivation being to rid the population of beliefs that were considered evil to allow christianity to thrive. You must remember that at the time the church was the power, not the state.

Heathen Pride is not about leather goods...

A question though. If you find Norse Mythology so idiotic what do you like about Amon Amarth? The music and the lyrical content or just the music?

 

[waif]

As far as converting people to Christianity, I'm fairly certain you're wrong. For one thing because at the time when most pagan religions were eliminated, the power was the FUCKING ROMAN EMPEROR. The church never had much military power, which would have been required to forcibly convert Scandinavia; Scandinavia was converted by its rulers, who did so for purely secular reasons (power).

I forgot, Heathen Pride is also about wearing little silver hammers.

I don't require that I believe in the ideology behind the lyrics. What we all do, really, whether or not we admit it to ourselves, is merely place ourselves within that moral frame when listening to that song, and simply remove ourselves from it when we're finished. It's how we can think lyrics about massacring villages are badass while at the same time condemning terrorism. I enjoy their lyrics but it is primarily the music that gets me. This rant may seem excessively venemous, because I think Norse beliefs get excessively fellated on this forum (forum, not thread), when the behavior such beliefs promote is to us completely unacceptable. I think we would all condemn murder, slavery, and rape, and yet...

I don't really have the will to continue this post. Basically, what I'm saying is that its fun to get together on the internet and talk about how we hate Jesus and HEATHEN PRIDE YEAH MOTHERFUCKER YOUR GOD DIED ON A CROSS MINE HAS A HAMMER BITCH !!1! but if you get some perspective on it it's all really silly.

 

[Resonator]

You miss the point. You see, without knowing it we are somewhat possessed by our own wills to operate with what we know. If we know "Heathen Pride" and know desire and desire "Heathen Pride" then we'll go about it. You can call that possession in it's purest form.

But to be clear, and I can only speak for myself on this, I need no lyrics to back up my claims.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

I propose Resonator be branded a troll. All in favour post accordingly.

 

[British Viking]

I'll agree that I dislike Christianity. After all, I'm a Brit and all I have to say is that Brits have one of the most savage histories in the world.

Some things I dislike about Christianity -

Church service was in Latin. The peasants couldn't understand it - of course the priests were doing this to get power. Who knows what they were really saying?

Hypocrisy. I have two examples of this.

1 - A moral of Christianity is "turning the other cheek" (which is insane anyway IMO). Christians have fought many wars such as invading the Holy Land (what's now Israel). I believe this was done on several occasions.

2 - Believe it or not, Primary schools are terrible places for religion. In assemblies they always try and brainwash you. There was this man who came in. He was from the Salvation Army, teaching us a concept of hand signs in connection to the Bible. When I told him I couldn't keep up, he kept saying he would go slower. But he never did.

Dictatorship - Well this is what it basically was. If you defied God you would go to hell (or so they said). This was a way the priests gained power.

Dictatorship 2 - England was Pagan, but it turned Christian after a man (I don't know what his name was) threatened everyone that if they did not become Christian, they would be killed. When this kind of thing happens, it's clearly a plan of slavery.

Beowulf - Quote from the film - "This country became lifeless ever since we turned Christian." It was probably something slightly different but it was along these lines.

Priests took money/possessions from the peasants. They had to give 1/10 of their possessions as a tax.

This is why I dislike Christianity. There isn't really anything to like about it IMO.

 

[Resonator]

If you defied God you would go to hell (or so they said)

You know what the worst part of it is? Even if you obey god, you're not going to Heaven. Sure it exists, but re-incarnation is the name of the game up there. Don't believe that? Well...Why not ask the man yourself one day

And a troll? Really? I'm not the one insinuating hatred against another board member, you are. So I forgive that comment.

 

[Achtland]

I believe in METAL and METAL is my culture! Too bad metalheads can't let go of this philosophical wankery of trying to blend religion with metal. It is OK to claim any religion and listen to METAL but if you want to be METAL don't try to change the METAL culture. Separation of church and METAL.

 

[EmeticGore]

 

[waif]

I propose Resonator be branded a troll. All in favour post accordingly.

Agreed.

Some things I dislike about Christianity -

Church service was in Latin. The peasants couldn't understand it - of course the priests were doing this to get power. Who knows what they were really saying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation
But sure, random generalizations are pretty sweet.

Hypocrisy. I have two examples of this.

1 - A moral of Christianity is "turning the other cheek" (which is insane anyway IMO). Christians have fought many wars such as invading the Holy Land (what's now Israel). I believe this was done on several occasions.

The Crusades were initiated by Pope Urban in order to increase the political power of the Church. The pope cannot really be considered representative of Christianity in the same way that George Bush cannot be considered representative of Americans. Nations went on the crusades because their leaders wished to avoid excommunication. Some went for religious reasons but by and large the soldiers who marched into the Holy Land went because their lords had commanded it and their lords commanded it for purely secular reasons.

There was this man who came in. He was from the Salvation Army, teaching us a concept of hand signs in connection to the Bible. When I told him I couldn't keep up, he kept saying he would go slower. But he never did.

OMG That's terrible! I can't believe what they do to children! They promised to go slower, but they lied. That's awful!

Dictatorship - Well this is what it basically was. If you defied God you would go to hell (or so they said). This was a way the priests gained power.

No. Nononononononono.
Individual priests exercised very little temporal power. A regional bishop would have some political power, but was constantly struggling with the local lords for influence and only had any power as long as he was backed by the Vatican.

Priests took money/possessions from the peasants. They had to give 1/10 of their possessions as a tax.

This is called tithing. Pretty much all religious institutions require it. Considering that the priest often served as a teacher and that it was the church that was responsible for the preservation of knowledge after the Roman Empire collapsed (although a significant amount of the knowledge of the Romans and Greeks we have to day was in fact preserved by Islamic cultures), and also that the people gained comfort from the church, this isn't really so bad. Peasants primarily practiced subsistence agriculture. How much that 1/10 would have improved their standard of living is questionable.

 

[tagradh]

I believe in Slayer. : )

 

[Vilewoman]

I believe in METAL and METAL is my culture! Too bad metalheads can't let go of this philosophical wankery of trying to blend religion with metal. It is OK to claim any religion and listen to METAL but if you want to be METAL don't try to change the METAL culture. Separation of church and METAL.

Finally someone who has something interesting to say! Kudos sister

Any fool can tell you the church has lied, used only certain scriptures to make the bible say what they want it to. Changed ancient stories passed through the ages, stolen holidays and festivals to better their cause. It's not rocket science.

 

[tagradh]

I have no problem with religion so long as it stays in the believers mind.

Any form of religion that has some need to leave that cosy place can fuck off.

 

[Tyra]

For one thing because at the time when most pagan religions were eliminated, the power was the FUCKING ROMAN EMPEROR. The church never had much military power, which would have been required to forcibly convert Scandinavia; Scandinavia was converted by its rulers, who did so for purely secular reasons (power).

Names please! Trying to follow your train of thought, as it interests me to see how people learn about- and perceive the history of my country of origin. Which Roman emperor, of which Roman empire (east or west at the time, since the Roman empire had fallen by the time Scandinavia was converted), and which Scandinavian ruler, as we did not officially have any proper rulers in my own country of origin until much later.

I don't suppose it occured to anyone that conversion can take place from the bottom up and the top down simultaneously, or that some people were converted by force while others were quite happy to convert, and that neither one is ill-fitting for the pre-historic cultural context?

Anyhow, we've had this damn dicusssion ad nauseum in the "Viking Mythology and all that goes with it" thread, so if y'all really want to get into that, there are something like 2000 posts in that thread already. I don't think this was the topic that Heathen_Pride had in mind for this thread...

/-T

 

[waif]

Names are irrelevant, but irc it was Constantine who made Christianity the official religion. Not positive. As for Scandinavia...I dunno how you interpreted me as saying Scandinavia was converted by the Romans, since afaik it wasn't. The majority of the pagan religions were eliminated before Scandinavia was Christianized.

Some happily converted everywhere. Large scale conversion, however, is pretty much always the result of political machinations.

I cba to read the Viking Mythology thread, so I just decided to turn this thread into the "me venting thread."

 

[Resonator]

If only I could draw out the things that make me believe in what I do. I gave my life to God, read the Gnostic Bible, and became schizophrenic. When I discovered that it was purely me all along, trying to pass a test of my own device, I realized that there is utter conflict in my dedication, and the wisdom in those books is like holding a metaphysical energy in your mind, waiting to be unleashed. If misused, it causes more of the conflict in your mind. You will try to justify all the things in those books by God's name, only to find that this path is a path to self. And in the self righteousness you discover that it was not the direction you wanted to go.

So you turn to selflessness. And with that wisdom, eyes begin to wander in your direction. More conflict, but at least forging ahead for your own benefit. As one currently on this path, I can say I see shores. They're bloodstained with our new conflict with control. Because I know for a fact there are many of you looking for answers to questions you don't even know. You just look for the truth. And there it is, waiting for you in the back of your mind.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

jesusneverexisted.com

I take LaVey over that Hellnised nonsense any day of the week, and twice on Sundays

 

[Resonator]

Now now. No sense in being ignorant. Just because the concept of him and what he does is the dill pickle lodged in your ass doesn't mean he didn't exist at all.

You just watch. Evolution is a fascinating subject indeed.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Depends upon which Jesus; that was a very common name in first-century Judea.

As to evolution, funny you should mention this; idiots have shat in the gene pool for far too long, and I look forward to a Malthusian event to rectify this misconduct.

Blessed are the strong, for they shall possess the earth - Cursed are the weak, for they shall inherit the yoke!

 

[Resonator]

You know which Jesus. He can walk on water. He can turn water into wine.

Can you turn hearts into stone and keep them beating ever outward?