Help with Drums!!

[Media331]

Hey guys,

So I'm having trouble micing my tom's. I seem to always get a really boomy/muddy tom recording. Granted, after eq'ing it sounds decent, but you can only polish a turd so much. I don't think I'm tuning my toms too low - doesn't seem like it - but then again I'm not a drummer. Honestly, they sound great to the ear live - but after recording them they are getting waaayyy too much low end boominess and are extremely muddy. So what's the issue? Is the mic too close....too far..etc ??? Currently I am probably about a couple inches from the head, angled so it is pointed at the center. I posted this on Gearslutz and was able to include an audio file so you guys can listen to what I'm talking about. The clip has first the processed toms followed by the raw tom sound.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/work-progress-advice-requested-show-tell-artist-showcase-mix-offs/704767-help-drums.html

Take a listen and let me know what you think. Any suggestions and help would be great - thanks!

-Jonathan

 

[pikachu69]

I cant listen atm but I will say this. If your toms really do sound great in the room they will sound great through the mic. (more or less) If you are not a drummer get a drum dial to tune your kit or get a really experienced drummer to do it. Bad tuning is a common cause of bad tom sounds. Boomyness is often caused by the mic being too close to the skin. Look up the proximity effect. try 3 to 4 inches off the skin, not to far over the top of the drum pointing roughly where the stick hits the skin. It shouldnt take more than a couple of mid range cuts and a little top end boost to make a tom sound good.

 

[Media331]

I cant listen atm but I will say this. If your toms really do sound great in the room they will sound great through the mic. (more or less) If you are not a drummer get a drum dial to tune your kit or get a really experienced drummer to do it. Bad tuning is a common cause of bad tom sounds. Boomyness is often caused by the mic being too close to the skin. Look up the proximity effect. try 3 to 4 inches off the skin, not to far over the top of the drum pointing roughly where the stick hits the skin. It shouldnt take more than a couple of mid range cuts and a little top end boost to make a tom sound good.

Thanks dude. Yeah like I said I'm not a drummer so for all I know I can be wrong about the tuning. I've researched a lot about tuning and think I did a fairly good job, but hey who knows. Okay so I'll try backing the mic off a bit. Thanks again.

-Jonathan

 

[006]

Actually this video has good section in it about mic'ing toms up (skip to 4:52), same basic method that I have been doing for years:

 

[Media331]

Actually this video has good section in it about mic'ing toms up (skip to 4:52), same basic method that I have been doing for years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RljZF9j5x-Q

Thanks dude I'm gonna watch it now. Much appreciated!

-Jonathan

 

[nervirasme]

Boominess is usually the first symptom of mic that's too close, and that's actually the proximity effect. You'll also get this on snare drum if you get too close to the head. Which mics are you using? Some mics have more pronounced proximity effect than others... But anyway, you can't judge the tone without overheads! Maybe you should back out the tom mic another inch, but when you're mixing pay attention to the full tone that's produced by both the close mics and overheads. After all, you won't mind that your close mics have more bottom end since overheads will naturally pick the higher end...

 

[mva801]

Sounds like they could use maybe a little tuning, A LOT harder hitting, and better mic placement. Try pointing it a bit more towards the rim, and backing off from the head a few inches. Experimentation is key. There's plenty of pics of miced up drum sets for you to check out, try some of their placements.

In my experience though, the drum itself and how hard it's hit are 75% of the determining factors. If those two conditions are right, then just about any mic (well placed) and good overheads will sound awesome.

 

[Media331]

Boominess is usually the first symptom of mic that's too close, and that's actually the proximity effect. You'll also get this on snare drum if you get too close to the head. Which mics are you using? Some mics have more pronounced proximity effect than others... But anyway, you can't judge the tone without overheads! Maybe you should back out the tom mic another inch, but when you're mixing pay attention to the full tone that's produced by both the close mics and overheads. After all, you won't mind that your close mics have more bottom end since overheads will naturally pick the higher end...

Yeah sounds like I gotta pull back a bit. I have the Audix D2's on the rack tom and the D4 on the floor tom. As far as overheads, when I'm mixing I feel like once the cymbals are sitting nice in the mix you can't even hear the toms anymore. Am I setting up my overheads incorrectly? I pretty much have them about 2 feet above the cymbals and spaced apart. Thanks for the tips my man!

-Jonathan

 

[Media331]

Sounds like they could use maybe a little tuning, A LOT harder hitting, and better mic placement. Try pointing it a bit more towards the rim, and backing off from the head a few inches. Experimentation is key. There's plenty of pics of miced up drum sets for you to check out, try some of their placements.

In my experience though, the drum itself and how hard it's hit are 75% of the determining factors. If those two conditions are right, then just about any mic (well placed) and good overheads will sound awesome.

Yeah I hear ya. I always thought and was told to aim at the center. Maybe halfway between the center and rim? I'll be back in the studio Thursday so I'll experiment with these tips then. Thanx dude.

-Jonathan

 

[AngryD]

Also make sure your mic is directly between two lugs, having it close to the nut will result in a boing (which could be a 'boom' at lower frequencies..)

 

[Media331]

Also make sure your mic is directly between two lugs, having it close to the nut will result in a boing (which could be a 'boom' at lower frequencies..)

Oh wow, good tip. Never heard this one! Thanks for the help dude.

-Jonathan

 

[heshian46]

Try bringing your overheads up a bit. 3' above the cymbals is a good starting point. This will cut excess sibilance from the cymbals, and get a better overview of the kit. Also, read up on the 3:1 rule.

 

[TwoGOneSee]

Try bringing your overheads up a bit. 3' above the cymbals is a good starting point. This will cut excess sibilance from the cymbals, and get a better overview of the kit. Also, read up on the 3:1 rule.

So, with the OHs 3' above the cymbals they have to be 9' apart?! isn't that what the 3:1 rule would dictate?

 

[TwoGOneSee]

Actually this video has good section in it about mic'ing toms up (skip to 4:52), same basic method that I have been doing for years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RljZF9j5x-Q

Ok, I realize that maybe some people probably think this is Sound Engineering 101 but this blew my mind (as both a drummer and hobbyist SE): A drum head is the inverse of a speaker in that a speaker's bass comes from the edge of the speaker and the treble comes from the center. But a drumhead is the opposite, bass in the middle, treble on the edges.

Fucking awesome. Not only will this improve my drum mic'ing but I think it will also help my cab mic'ing too!

 

[oroinvictus]

Ok, I realize that maybe some people probably think this is Sound Engineering 101 but this blew my mind (as both a drummer and hobbyist SE): A drum head is the inverse of a speaker in that a speaker's bass comes from the edge of the speaker and the treble comes from the center. But a drumhead is the opposite, bass in the middle, treble on the edges.

Fucking awesome. Not only will this improve my drum mic'ing but I think it will also help my cab mic'ing too!

This is because drum heads are flat. That knowledge will definitely help in micing.

 

[Media331]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I'm glad this birthed some good discussion. I'm definitely gonna work on my overhead setup.

-Jonathan

 

[Media331]

Holy crap you guys are awesome. These simple adjustments made such a difference. The tone I'm getting from these toms now is incredible - extremely balanced. I applied these same techniques to my snare and kick and the results were just as awesome. I assumed having my D6 very close to the batter head inside the kick drum would give me that snap I needed, but it always sounded unnatural to me. I pulled back some and now the tone is so much more even. I got great snap and a smooth low end. What a great day in the studio lol. Thanks again guys.

-Jonathan

 

[TwoGOneSee]

Holy crap you guys are awesome. These simple adjustments made such a difference. The tone I'm getting from these toms now is incredible - extremely balanced. I applied these same techniques to my snare and kick and the results were just as awesome. I assumed having my D6 very close to the batter head inside the kick drum would give me that snap I needed, but it always sounded unnatural to me. I pulled back some and now the tone is so much more even. I got great snap and a smooth low end. What a great day in the studio lol. Thanks again guys.

-Jonathan

So what do you feel was the secret sauce for your toms?

Also, still wondering about the overhead height... How far are your overheads (vertically) from the "cymbal plane"? AND if you are A/B micing, how far apart are your mics from eachother (horizontally)?